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Good to hear from you Neil. I'll be in on Friday this week mate x
Just read that Ashley young will be included in the Olympics squad. Was just about to slag Stuart Pearce off when in the sub text it said Tom Daley was looking for a new synchronised diving partner
Surely in retrospect the f.a. Will serve a ban for his persistant cheating
I've got some stronger words that shouldn't be published This message was last edited by citydave on 16/04/2012.
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Dave,
The dirty cheating DIVING B......!!!! However he cannot be punished further for it as the ref saw TEVEZ dive and booked him for it, but I agree he should get a retrospective ban to stop him doing it again! As for Young, his brilliant attacking play has drew desperate challenges in the box for two games on the trot now and earned us two fully deserved penalties. We now cant win the league before the visit to the Etihad so we will just have to win it there, no problem, shelling peas. The only thing you have a chance of is to equal our best ever home record for anybody of 18 wins and a draw. To do that you have to beat both Utd and QPR. Not such a great reward for such a promising season is it mate and if we draw we will even scupper that.
Dakey
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Ooops Dakey you were right after all Wigan are definitely the form team right now. They actually played well and deserved it on the night my only quibble is the horrendous time wasting. The ref booked Al habsi on the 92 minute for time wasting when if he had done that during the game there would have not been need to add 5 mins onto the game in the first place. Sour grapes I know but I hate time wasters. I hope we'll be a lot more effective on Saturday against chelski Jay
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Well Fellas,
Its not often that I eulogise over other teams, but I will make an exception for little Wigan Athletic. I was feeling a bit down when they beat us last week but now I am just glad we got away with only a 1-0 defeat. They were absolutely brilliant tonight at the Emirates and the gunners also played their part in a magnificent game of football. The only gripe I have is with Wengers and Van Persies petulance at the end. No one likes to lose, but it would have been nice if they could have accepted it with a bit more grace, they are still in the box seat for third place, but it is certainly more interesting now.
Dakey
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Just listen to yourselves
A week ago we were finished and the worst team in creation as arsenal battered us with a 1-0 late goal winner
Wigan the new barca? Naww not havin it
Football at this time of the season is unpredictable
Agreeing with you again Dakey!!!! Caldwell should have chinned van persies ignorant gob This message was last edited by citydave on 17/04/2012.
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Dave,
Stop agreeing with me mate, you are getting me paranoid! You are wrong about one thing though, football at this time of year is very predictable. We hit form and win the league. as I say very predictable.
I will cheer you up with a joke I was told last night in the hotel bar in Aberdeen.
Two fellas from Glasgow having a drink in the pub and spot two fat birds in the corner. As they become tipsy they decide to go and chat them up. They saunter over and one of them says " Are you two girls from Scotland then?" one of the girls retorted "Wales you idiot!"
Oh, sorry said the lad, let me start again..."Are you two whales from Scotland then?" boom boom.
Dakey
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Dave,
Looking again at your last post, I think you are being a little disrespectful to just what Wigan have achieved recently. No one is saying they are the new Barca, that would be ridiculous, but they have just beaten Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal and but for these imbecile officials that we are blighted with, would have beaten Chelsea as well. Now in anyones estimation that deserves great credit.
Sometimes in Football you suffer a 1-0 defeat and you are happy with that as the performance merited a walloping. We had one such game against Wigan and you had one against the Gunners, so yes it was a 1-0 hammering and you are the worst team in creation and as good as finished so get used to it mate.
Dakey
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Dakey,
Young was a disgrace...he cheated and thats the plain fact.
Actions like his ruin the game. I was going to say ruin the reputation of the game but really thats already been destroyed by FIFA.
I enjoy a good game but feel disgusted when I see players do this. Instead of staying on their feet and trying to score they do the opposite, they look for any excuse to throw themselves on the ground.
One thing I like about watching Messi (and I don't see him enough to say he doesn't dive) is that even in the penalty box he is leaping over legs and pushing past players to try and score.
I know Young doesn't have the talent of Messi but it would be nice to see more strikers trying to score goals than win penalties (and the term win penalties does suggest the player doing something to get them).
Shane
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Shane
My sentiments too mate. I wory when such a respected figure as Ferguson comments that "he played for it" as if its natural in the game.
Surely managers should also see it as abhorent. You don't only try to get goals from it, you get fellow proffesionals, even ex team mates sent off
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And there lies the problem. If managers are backing up this behaviour (maybe encouraging it) and the FA isn't doing anything, and the referees are not dishing out yellow cards all over the show for diving, well the players are going to do what they can to get a win.
Unfortunately they are, as you say, in some cases getting other players booked or sent off with their playacting.
Seems the penalty box is laced with some kind of Forwards Kryptonite which makes them so weak that a gust of wind makes them fall to the ground. But once they escape from this devilish area they regain their strength and can physically cope with contact and even put in the odd tackle.
This message was last edited by SMV on 17/04/2012.
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From the Mirror yesterday and before anyone says it all teams have had there divers.
Wenger: Ban divers for three games
Arsene Wenger last night claimed divers should be hit with a three match ban.
Wenger urged the Football Association to take strong action after admitting foreign players brought diving into the English game.
Wenger agreed Liverpool striker Andy Carroll's recent dive at Newcastle would be an example of being worth of a ban and says a video panel should look at matches and get tough on players.
Frenchman Wenger believes it would quickly stamp the problem out of the game after admitting the influx of foreign players into the Premier League made diving the problem that it is today.
Wenger said: "If an obvious dive is punished by a three-match ban, the players would not do it anymore. I would support it. It has to be obvious diving.
"Ashley Young for example against QPR I would not suspend him because I don't know if he has lost his balance. He has made more of it for sure to get the penalty. This is not an obvious case for me.
"Everybody wants to win football games and when you have played football, you always try to be on the fringe if you want to win. For example, you touch the ball and it goes out you shout: 'throw in for us.' Things like that.
"But with a dive in the box, sometimes I think you can only get it out after the game.
"I think that the foreign players have brought good and bad things. But I must say the English players learn quickly."
Wenger believes video evidence should be introduced into the games with instant replays to stop cheating and also to decide bad tackles and offside decisions.
The Arsenal manager believes instant replays and a post-match ethics committee would help clean up the game.
Wenger said: "It's impossible to judge today penalties. Penalties and offsides are the main problems for the referees. All the rest you have to give to them. Especially on penalties. For example the dives.
"Or you say everybody who dives now and is caught after the game is suspended for three games.
"But you have a double obstacle, first of all when the situation has been assessed by the referee, you cannot come back on the judgement of the referee, so it's better you give him video help.
"We have that famous thing that the judgement of the referee has to be final. But I don't agree with that.
"We should have a superior committee of ethics who could still punish a player like that. Because you go home and you think he now gets away without being suspended and the whole situation doesn't make sense."
This message was last edited by Jay05 on 17/04/2012.
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This issue about if the ref saw it and didn't do anything then nothing can be done is easily dealt with.
In the SuperXV rugby comp they introduced a white card. The ref makes his decision but shows a white card to indicate he's not sure if he saw everything. The incident is then reviewed after the match.
I don't think you want replays being looked at during the game except maybe for penalty decisions.
After match footage should be looked at for all those players who hold up play rolling around the ground in agony and who in the end need no attention and are perfectly fine.
As one of the players said a few weeks ago...if the FA and refs got tough on it, it would be fixed in a matter of months.
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Jay,
A very good article by Arsen Wenger and did you also see Gary Nevilles take on it yesterday before the Arsenal Wigan game. When you get beyond all the Man Utd bias nonsense even Wenger says that Ashley Youngs incident against QPR would not merit further action as it was a foul, but then accentuated by Young to look worse and there is the problem, seperating the blatant dive when not touched from the falling to ground when actually fouled. Neville gave an insight into what transpires in the changing rooms where the forwards are told to go to ground if there is contact to highlight that a foul is commited. He then showed clips of players who stayed on their feet who were clearly being fouled and the refs were not giving the pens. It is more complicated than just diving as when refs are told to clamp down they invariably start booking players who have been genuinely fouled. The only answer for me would be a panel of experts looking at it retrospectively and three match bans for the guilty. Either way, Ashley Young making a meal of challenges when actually being fouled would not, in my opinion and the opinion of Mr Wenger, come in to that category.
Dakey
This message was last edited by dakey on 17/04/2012.
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Dakey
Think you're missing a bit of the Ashley Young problem. Obviously we'll argue anti-utd bias however Shane's excellent point was, the better player factor. Messi, Aguerro, Gattusso, Kinkladze dare I say Dave Mckay type player would never dream of trying to get players sent off.
Both occasions Young had beaten the defender yet chose to leave his trailing leg in there.
Win it well or at all costs???
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I think Wenger said he couldn't tell if Young lost his balance or not so therefore wouldn't deserve a suspension. He didn't mention the foul. He just said it wasn't an obvious case.
I think throwing yourself to the ground becasue someone has made the slightest of touches and then trying to vindicate it by saying you need to show its a foul is like rolling around clutching your face from slight contact to ensure the ref knows you got caught. Both are playacting, both get players sent off for nothing, and both show a very poor example to all watching.
I don't see the issue being resolved...its easy to do and could have been done anytime in the last number of years. I wouldn't think diving this season has been worse than previous seasons but could be wrong.
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All good points and all are valid depending on your view and standpoint. Absolutely no-one likes to see a player dive or accentuate a contact to gain an advantage especially if the opponent has to leave the game because of it. We got rid of one the worst proponents in Eboue last year and we're all delighted that we have not got a cheat like him down the Arsenal now. There were the famous incidents with Pires and Eduardo and we're not proud of them in any way. If either of them had been retrorpectively banned it would of been harsh but if it had helped to rid the game of this then so be it.
Gerrard Rooney Ronaldo Bale Suarez Drogba....the list is endless all of them as guilty as sin at one point.
Every weekend I watch my son and my daughter play their Sunday league matches and thank god none of the behaviour of their worshipped heros histrionics and blatant cheating has crept down to that level. So I think it's just a premiership/top league thing and when the stakes are so high and there's so much money involved, which is shame because I can't see it changing as Fifa/Euefa are such weeds when it comes to implementing laws that'll properly benefit the game and its reputation.
Jay
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Jay
If FIFA thinks it will cost them money they won't have a bar of it. And they won't like the thought of the top goal scorers sitting on the sidelines.
Its not rocket science...we all know assigning a panel of referees to review any incident during a game and retrospectively issue cards or bans as warranted would sort out the problem. There is no will within the games administration to fix this.
I think it was several years ago when they said they were going to stamp down on "simulation". That must have lasted maybe half a season and was just a PR stunt. Same with the abuse and confrontation of referees and assistants...a lot of talk and no action.
Hope I'm proved wrong.
Shane
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To stop the intimidation of the ref is simple!! The law is already in place for some of it as we can all lip read the players effing jeffing at the ref!! That is an instant red card SIMPLES..
Any dissent from any player to the ref move the ball forward 10 yards directly towards the goal, if that means it goes in the box then its a penalty, alternative is to sin bin the player for 10 minutes, his team and manager will soon tell him to STFU!!
Now then diving is a different kettle of fish as the players today are running so fast in and out of the penalty area that indeed a nudge is sometimes enough to send them over..
Nobody likes the ref! neither players, managers or the crowd so he is losing a losing battle all the time.. However we NEED the ref in football or the game dies so why dont we help them instead of berating every decision from him when he is trying to be honest (except Webb at Utd LOL) and do the right thing.
We and the refs know who the serial divers are so let the ref be brave enough to do the right thing and rid them from the match RED CARD EM its cheating!!!!
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Fellas,
This is what is needed sometimes, a bloody good debate with everyone making valid and sensible points (instead of just me).
Dave, if you watched gary nevilles slot on the subject last night he was very thorough and showed about 20 different clips to back up his arguments. One of the clips was of Messi getting booked for diving in the area trying to con the ref, so instead of name dropping do a bit of research on the subject. Even the best players in the world ie Messi and Ronaldo are both at it.
The whole issue of diving to win penalties was perfected by a certain Francis Lee (nicknamed Lee won pen) and everything else has stemmed from that. I wont comment on which club he was regarded as a legend at!
Dakey
This message was last edited by dakey on 17/04/2012.
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