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Jay,
I accept that the great man would like to have won more CLs,so would I, but I still insist it has to be put into context, bearing in mind the different formats. When Liverpool dominated our league in the seventies and eighties they won say 10 titles and went on to win 4 european cups under the old format. interspersed with that Villa and Forrest won a couple of titles and went on to win the european cup 3 times between them. We have dominated league football for longer than Liverpool and as such would have had 13 european cups to go at under the old format. Never mind that it is Utd, my argument would apply to any of todays top teams in England, be it Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, etc, it just happens to be us. If any of those teams had 13 cracks at it under the old format I would be fairly certain that any of them would have a return of at least 4 european cups having only 4 or 5 top teams in opposition each year.
As a Utd fan and although I love the CL and all the big games it throws up, I should feel slightly bitter that the powers that be changed the format at around the beginning of our dominant spell and denied us the opportunity of greatness under the older easier format.
under the old system, you would have say Liverpool, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern. perhaps Ajax and then not much else to contend with.
under the present system you would have Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, City.... AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus, Lazio.... Bayern, Dortmund and another two, Barca, Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid, Valencia, Not to mention the mega rich Russian and French teams. As different my friend as chalk and cheese.
Again, just my opinion, but I think one that is difficult to argue against. We will just have to add a couple more in the next few years to receive the proper recognition that we deserve.
Dakey
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I'm not argueing or comparing to Liverpool or forest back in the day. Just present day comparisons to say Barca etc who effectively play in leagues where only two or possibly three teams can win their domestic leagues like ours. They have been in general more successful in it than i think you should of been given both sides dominance and power which are definitely comparable.
Jay This message was last edited by Jay05 on 01/05/2013.
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Jay,
If you had said that in the first place, I wouldnt have prattled on so much. If we are holding Barca up as a yardstick then no one can compare as they have been brilliant. Our record of 4 finals and 2 wins (lost twice to the same Barca) along with our 2 WCCups compare favourably with the rest. Anyway, I think we have done that subject to death, lets think of something to goad George about, shouldnt be too difficult.
Dakey
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Well,
A packed vibrant camp nou, a powerful Bayern Munich in town, the sniff of a miraculous comeback growing with each passing minute. Surely it wouldnt be possible against such a dominant powerful foe......... Yes it was! along came Sheringham and Ole and BOOM BOOM! Obviously Barca are not made of the same stuff as the mighty reds.
Jay, 3rd final in 4 years for Bayern, but they lost the other two, so by your logic they are an average under achieving over rated outfit.
Dakey
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So tell me dakey which average team last year knocked out barcelona and then bayern munich on their own ground to win the CL. That result in Bayern last year put firmly into perspective with yesterdays thrasing of barca. Happy Daze.
And dont give me the luck bit- we had bad luck in droves in previous CL years and should now have 3 trophies but the messiah is back soon and hopefully the trophies will continue.
Now lets get the whole of England behind Englands sole representatives in europe tonight. Come on you Blues.
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George,
The same average team that finished 6th last year, could well finish 4th or even 5th this year and were soundly sent packing in the group stages of this years CL once the luck had run out. You see mate and it applies to Utd as well as everyone else, your domestic league is the true barometer and even a mini league in the CL groups. A league format will more or less allow fluctuations of luck good or bad and the best teams will prevail. Knock out cup football however is much more prone to luck on the day and as exciting as it can be at times it can never be the true test of the ability of a team. With that in mind then and considering your league performances over the last couple of years, then yes you are distinctly average. That doesnt mean however that it will stay that way and if you do indeed re employ the 'Special one' then I can see you up there challenging again with the boring but effective style that comes with him.......wait a minute though, wasnt that the reason the mad russian got shut of him in the first place? his teams were not entertaining enough as I remember and more style was required. Tell me mate, what has changed at the Bridge that now makes his style of football acceptable to Roman?
Dakey
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dakey, you lot only enter one comp, we enter them all,in most years with tremendous success, although you squueked to cl cups by a missed pen and lazy last minute defending with the game all but one by the germans in the other. you didnt deserve to win either lets be fair. so just concentrate on the league and leave the cup excitemnet to the other teams.we enter them all.. your season finished months ago. ours is ongoing, looking forward to your support tonight.
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George,
I will be rooting for Chelsea tonight as the LOSERS Cup holds no interest for me so I might as well root for the English team. I am sure I do not have to remind you of the merit of penalty shoot outs as that is exactly why you are (soon to be dethroned) CL Holders. I am sure that I also dont have to remind you that we hold the record number of FA Cups and I really shoudnt have to remind you of the merits of late injury time goals as our reserves were leading your 1st strength team at your place this year in the carling cup before you fluked a last gasp equaliser to go on to win it in extra time. Pot calling the Kettle black springs to mind when reading your observations.
Good luck tonight, but even your average lot surely cant blow it from here. The final however is a whole different proposition.
If you do manage to win it though, " the Winners of the LOSERS cup" is quite a mouthful to have etched on the side of it.
Dakey
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Congratulations to Chelsea,that was an entertaining game, but Basle must be wondering how the bloody hell they lost that game. I dont think I have seen an away team have so many shots on goal before. Chelsea though have a variety of different matchwinners and that is what makes them such a dangerous cup team, they can score out of nothing after being under the cosh for long spells. The commentators highlighted Chelseas run in with Utd and Spurs followed by Villa and Everton after the final. that is a tough old run in and a CL spot is in danger if they are not careful.
Dakey
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Well, Well George,
Todays results make it very interesting now. You had better hope that we dont take it too seriously tomorrow as the next two league games for you are massive. It is safe to say that if you lose to us and Spurs then you can kiss goodbye to CL football next season and no amount of easy owner money or special one return will change that.
Dakey
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Jay,
George has still not responded to my completely legitimate and respectful request for him to explain why Jose was binned from Chelsea for his BORING style of football, not for the fact he didnt win things, because he won plenty. I merely asked why that style of football would be welcomed back by the mad Russian when he hated it at the time.
Dakey
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