| The Comments |
Windtalker
The Lib Dems will not and have no interest in controlling any immigration, which is the main reason they lost so many votes and MPs in the 2015 election despite doing a half decent job in coalition.
The surge in votes in 2010 for UKIP though not gaining any MPs was a warning to the government that the populous of the U.K. Wanted a say.
General elections do not necessarily reflect the will of the majority due to systems, look at the US.
The referendum was a binary choice and every single vote counted, largest turn out ever, a simple yes or no to remaining in the EU and all the EU meant, even parliament had voted 6 to 1 in favour of giving the people their say.
This message was last edited by hugh_man on 05/12/2016.
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Hi Windy
Lib Dems
Not an answer to your question I'm afraid, but perhaps the Lib Dems should change their name. I'm not sure how liberal they are but they sure as hell are not democratic if they wish to overthrow the will of the people.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 05/12/2016.
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Mickeyfinn, I don't take pleasure from this but it appears problems still exist for Italy's banks.
“Monte dei Paschi readied for state bailout after Renzi defeat”... Political upheaval threatens €5bn bank recapitalisation plan.
If Monte dei Paschi’s plan fails, then that spells bad news for the other Italian banks that need recapitalising,
If Italy can’t sort out its banks, then they will be in a real mess. Once again Europe finds itself in a position where politics, the ECB and the banks are dangerously entwined.
Bankers are running out of private-sector solutions for Monte dei Paschi di Siena and have told the Italian lender to prepare for a state bailout this weekend after prime minister Matteo Renzi was felled by a referendum defeat.”
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Yes 6 to 1 in favour of asking the question. But not the answer or the process. If they asked Parliament to decide in or out it would have been a landslide for remain. Daydream b.leavers are opposed to even asking Parliament how the process should work. So not really sure why daydream b.leavers keep pointing out that Parliament voted 6 to 1 to ask the people how they felt in an advisory referendum.
If a new government is formed are they required to accept the referendum result? I would say yes unless they run on a platform of not triggering article.50 or even disregarding the referendum. If they got elected on that basis arguably the majority who voted would have voted to remain. Yes it is not fair. But that is democracy.
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1The referendum
This section has no associated Explanatory Notes
(1)A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union.
(2)The Secretary of State must, by regulations, appoint the day on which the referendum is to be held.
(3)The day appointed under subsection (2)—
(a)must be no later than 31 December 2017,
(b)must not be 5 May 2016, and
(c)must not be 4 May 2017.
(4)The question that is to appear on the ballot papers is—
“Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”
(5)The alternative answers to that question that are to appear on the ballot papers are—
“Remain a member of the European Union
Leave the European Union”.
..........................................................................................................
Nowhere does it say that the government is seeking advice. There can only be one purpose of a referendum.
Of course some dictators think that the will of the people is only advisory, but we live in a democracy (I hope).
This message was last edited by tteedd on 05/12/2016.
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Well tted we will go through it again. Unless the referendum says it is binding it is advisory. That is the law on referenda.
It also does not say it will be triggered by Royal Perogative.
There has only been one binding referendum in UK history. You can see for yourself the difference in the language used
Dated 11 May 2010, detailed the issues which had been agreed between the two parties before they committed to entering into coalition. On the issue of an electoral reform referendum, it stated:
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The parties will bring forward a Referendum Bill on electoral reform, which includes provision for the introduction of the Alternative Vote in the event of a positive result in the referendum, as well as for the creation of fewer and more equal sized constituencies. Both parties will whip their Parliamentary Parties in both Houses to support a simple majority referendum on the Alternative Vote, without prejudice to the positions parties will take during such a referendum.[18] |
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The idiots who profess to run the EU continue to suggest the UK will be castigated BUT the local businesses are clearly considering their options.
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The Region of Murcia has become the first of Spain’s 17 Autonomous Communities to set up a governmental committee with the specific aim of analyzing the effects of Brexit on the economy, evaluating the consequences of the withdrawal from the EU of the Region’s second most important export destination.
Last year sales from Murcia to the UK came to 956 million euros, accounting for 10% of all exports and making the Region the fourth most important exporter to the UK in Spain, and the committee’s mission is to assess what can be done to minimize the potential negative effects of Brexit on such diverse sectors as food, agricultural technology, wine, information technology, furniture, textiles, tourism and pharmaceuticals and chemicals. The ultimate aim is to protect the interests of companies based in Murcia, and meetings will be held every three months to discuss how this can best be achieved.
The effects of Brexit on the economy of Murcia have been noticeable over recent months: while in the first half of 2016 exports to the UK fell by only 1.5% to 504.13 million euros, in the third quarter the figure dropped by 5.25%, due mainly to decreasing trade in the fields of industrial products and technology. Exports of consumer goods and drinks, meanwhile, continued to grow, particularly frozen and fresh vegetables (by 5.9% over the first nine months of this year), fruit juices (by 67%), machinery and power-generating equipment (52%), footwear (29%), food ingredients and additives (18%), furniture (7%), fish and seafood (80%) and construction machinery (9%).
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OK I get it now ,the Referendum was the Government asking the electret for advice and the majority of the people said they where not happy ,so what happens now with the advise .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 06/12/2016.
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tteed said
The members of the commision are selected just as the members of the house of lords are. There is no democratic accountablilty.
Once the 28 commisoners (one for each member state) have been nominated by the elected govts of that state then the MEP's have to vote on these - they then vote to accept or reject these nominations (not sure if any have been rejecetd) but they have to be approved by a VOTE of elected MEP's).
So the democratic accountability is held at the inidividual states elected govt who nominates AND the elected MEP's who vote to accept the nominations.
If you have an issue with this democratic process then I suggest you contact you own govt (or PM) and ask for a democratic vote on your govts nomination as a commisioner - this process was agreed democratically by govt representatives of the member states
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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OK I get it now ,the Referendum was the Government asking the electret for advice and the majority of the people said they where not happy ,so what happens now with the advise .
.........
Very easy WT, those that we voted for and are supposed to represent us, want a final say because they did not understand the question.
in or Out ?
Despite them telling us they were going to allow the people to decide NOT themselves.
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Came across this...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6
June 14th
"This has to go down as one of the largest pieces of small print in British political history.
The overwhelming majority of the British public is probably totally unaware of this legislative loophole. As far as most Brits understand, Britain will no longer be an EU member if Leave wins next week's referendum."
http://uk.businessinsider.com/report-pro-remain-mps-will-use-majority-to-keep-britain-in-single-market-2016-6
MPs are hatching a plan to keep Britain in the single market if there is a Brexit
Adam Payne Jun. 6, 2016, 2:32 PM
Reuters
"Members of Parliament who want Britain to remain in the European Union are devising an incredible plan to keep the country in the single market, even if the public votes for a Brexit, according to the BBC.
Pro-"Remain" MPs are reportedly fearful of what a Brexit would mean for the country's economy - specifically that a post-Brexit government would negotiate a limited trade deal with the EU.
Because of this, pro-Remain MPs from across the House of Commons are supposedly considering using their house majority to vote for Britain to stay in European single market, even if there is a Brexit.
If this vote was to take place it would be one of the most monumental events in parliament's history. It would mean that MPs would use their power to actively legislate against the will of the British public".
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Democracy - Government by the will of the people.
Either the electorate make the decisons or the electorate choses representitvies who make the decisions.
Niether case is true of the Commission. As speculated the MEP's have no choice in the matter. They cannot in any sense chose the commissioners and despite having a vote they cannot reject one.
If the EU wishes to become democratic it must either make the E parliament the executive body or make the commission representitive and elected.
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'That is the law on referenda'
You are in LaLa land again, PP's law?
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OED - Referendum: referring of political question to the electorate for direct decision.
A referendum was offerred in the manefesto of the Conservative party at the last election.
The Conservatives were elected, stood by their pledge passed the necessary legislstion (approved 6:1 in parliament) and had the referendum.
The electorate voted that we should leave the EU.
The government now has only one option. Act on the will of the people.
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Now I suppose a government could go to the electorate for 'advice' but it would not be a referendum. Even if it had done this it would be very unlikely to ignor the advice of the electorate in an adverendum. But perhaps this is bordering on LaLa land as well.
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I think if people don't understand the issues they should ask their mom or dad to help them before commenting.
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Tteedd
Valid points but if the MEP'S reject a commisioner they effectively reject the commission and it all would have to start again
It may not be perfect but it was agreed by all member states including the uk and therefore democratic
The uk political systems are also not perfect but criticising and accusing the eu of being undemocratic whilst at the same time the uk is just as undemocratic maybe you should fix your own before casting aspersions on others
I am not aware of any country that has the perfect democratic system
Or those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones etc etc
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd
Cutting to the quick;
For the UK the commons is the executive body and it is elected.
For the EU the commission is the executive body and it is unelected.
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Whether or not the small print is found to be inadequate and not binding, another DC cock up or if thecSupreme Court decide against the current government it will be interesting to see if MPs would have the balls to vote contrary to their constituents and electorate.
Any binary vote is likely to be relatively close, just look at Scottish Independence, US Election and EU Referendum, if not it would be close to a dictatorship or like voting for Putin.
We in the supposedly civilised and democratic world aspire to having an effective opposition to hold any government to account, we should therefore expect diverse views on one question.
The government's role is to get the best pis dibble deal for 100% of its people bearing in mind that a majority voted in one way.
If the EU continues its intransigence, not conceding issues surrounding the Single Market or Freedom of Movement, then the UK will have no option to revert to WTO rules.
How can you expect the negotiators to reveal a hand IF the people they are negotiating with have already stated NO CHANCE.
Negotiation is supposed to be compromise.
Its a shame the EU is not quite so strict on its members financial and debt criteria as its insistence of Freedom of Movement, which many member nations are actually starting to question.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_convergence_criteria
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Amazing what 20 rebel Tory remain MP's can achieve! Teresa May made her first major blunder in declaring she wanted to keep negotiations secret. I mean really how sustainable was that?
Go to this link to understand why Brexit is going to be far more difficult than anyone thinks.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought
Perhaps the simplest thing and the wisest thing for this government to do in 18 month’s time is declare Britain is no longer a member of the EU and leave everything else in place. Job done.
I suspect most of that will actually happen. Both sides will be then content the referendum result satisfied and life can be serenely normal once more.
The populists can carry on bleating from the side lines and the government can proceed to the next election knowing they may actually have a chance of winning.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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