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15 Oct 2019 10:59:

Pseudoscience Mickeyfinn?

You could claim this every time someone comes up with alternative analysis to your own. Sadly you do a complete disservice to fair open minded evaluation and analysis by suggesting such.

Good analysis should be independent  of dogged political mantra with willingness to evaluate with open minds and willingness to admit mistakes and seek out good rational solutions that are not constrained by purely ideological reasoning...such forms of political stereotyping and lack of flexibility to analyse from a far wider perspective frequently  leads to distrust and alienation, which if we are honest, is probably why so many citizens have become disillusioned with politicians and the EU establishment, and why frustration grows with those who are constrained likewise in their own evaluations.



This message was last edited by ads on 15/10/2019.

This message was last edited by ads on 15/10/2019.
Thread: Brexit and residency

14 Oct 2019 21:29:


Your answers are contradictory in so much as one moment you deny the EU are aiming for a federal state and yet you constantly make reference to the “collective” so your responses imply that the EU is already acting as a federal state where individual nation states sadly count for little. Your response re denial of brain drains is quite extraordinary...

Scapegoating individual member states  inevitable leads to disharmony and impacts cohesion.

Your failure to acknowledge the turning of blind eyes re qualifying entrance criteria for Greece to be accepted into the EU which should never have been allowed and how citizens were subsequently impacted and the way Germany appears to have benefitted off the back of their financing loans, speaks reams. Germany turns out to be a major beneficiary of Greece’s debt crisis as it earned a total of €2.9 billion between 2010 and 2017. This emerges from a response of the Federal ministry of finance in Berlin to a parliamentary request from the Greens (Bündnis90/ Die Grünen) in the German Bundestag obtained by EURACTIV.


As for austerity in the UK, you still haven’t recognised that freedom of movement policies EXACERBATED the problems following the Great Recession. Yet another denial...

There is little purpose to continuing to debate when your responses are in complete denial of many other uncomfortable and detailed  realities, so best we leave it there. Plus this is not the first time that you have made reference to suspecting my motives.... what nonsense. 

Critiques of the EU have arisen as a consequence of research looking into background detail, ironically on the back of your false claims. Detail that is sadly frequently overlooked and replaced by generalised ideological mantra that fails to recognise uncomfortable impacts from EU Commission’s mismanagement and bad decision making. Impacts that need to be recognised and adequately responded to if citizen disillusionment is to be curtailed. 

I have said this on many occasions that it doesn’t need to be this way but reflection on impacts and review of details is essential if lessons are ever going to be learned going forward.





This message was last edited by ads on 14/10/2019.
Thread: Brexit and residency

14 Oct 2019 11:45:

Trust and belief in the EU Commission broke down by the way they behaved and dismissed the genuine concerns that arose from their policy making and the impact on the UK. They were arrogant and dismissive.

They continue in their objective to expand without proper regard to budgets.  

They fail to recognise the unfair manner of lifting of restrictions with regard to movement of people and fail to take action to respond in any practical manner that provides reassurance to those countries exposed to major impacts.

They rely instead on mantra, on study papers, on ideological rhetoric without any effective perceived solutions to the highly concerning problems associated with breakdown in cohesion.

They remain remote from the people,

They hide behind treaty arrangements when it comes to effecting change relating to real issues that require assistance.

They were hypocritical in the way they responded to those countries who significantly benefited at the expense of others outside the pre ordained stability mechanisms and turned blind eyes when such limits were exceeeded.

They failed to recognise and adequately respond to the impact of their policy decisions and the subsequent unemployment and brain drains on member states, while also failing to recognise the opposite impact of countries expected to respond in the uptake and the impact on infrastructure, benefit systems, health systems etc. 

They fail to recognise the carnage they have caused by turning blind eyes to the methods employed with their highly questionable austerity measures against the likes of Greece who they crippled with debt without any concern for citizens.

They have mismanaged the peace agreement in Ireland during negotiations, which has led to increasing vulnerabilities and distrust in their objectives which appear to have threatened the UKs precious union and talk of reunification of Ireland in that process.

We could go on ad infinitum with their failures and mismanagement that has led to division and mistrust in their ability to manage.

But enough....we need to return to the democratic  processes of our own making where citizens feel better valued and our representatives are far more accessible to respond when real issues arise with practical solutions instead of mantra that few believe.

This goes far wider than just belated reform on the part of the EU.......it goes to the heart of who we are as a nation and the need to rebuild trust and harmony by regaining control through our own governance.


Thread: Brexit and residency

13 Oct 2019 23:25:

In this day and age all this behaviour that continues to divide, alienate, and threatens the United Kingdom and a peace agreement in Ireland, all off the back of aspirations of a union of European nations born after the war, but now seemingly out of control in so much as a combination of inflexible unaccountable decisions can so negatively impact the UK, without willingness to recognise or adequately respond, just beggars belief and no longer appears to serve the best interests of UK citizens.

This is the reality that Parliamentarians need to wake up to, instead of playing political games with citizens lives. We all deserve better and an agreement that reflects a decent mutually beneficial compromise should be sought if possible. But to remain in the EU in the face of such obstacles that no longer serve the best interests of UK citizens needs to be recognised and the democratic vote to leave should be respected.

How we move forward thereafter should be decided through our own democratic processes, where decision making remains accountable, and where if lessons need to be learned and reform forthcoming, at least it will be of our own making, back in control of our own destiny so to speak. 

This message was last edited by ads on 13/10/2019.

This message was last edited by ads on 14/10/2019.

This message was last edited by ads on 14/10/2019.
Thread: Brexit and residency

13 Oct 2019 14:36:

Hardliners, by definition that they are intransigent in nature, do no service to finding solutions going forward. 

Where we disagree is that many who voted for leave do not consider the desire to leave the EU to be a “ foolish political act”.

Quite the opposite in fact, as they consider to remain in the EU would be foolish, given all the scapegoating ( covered by all manner of detail debated to date) that has sadly significantly compromised the UK in these interim years. Perhaps it boils down to the UK with its high priority to retain democracy over its own processes and control over its own domestic affairs is not suited to federal aspirations.

But here we come back to that word “ intransigent”, as Junker and the Commission have demonstrated their intransigence over the years with regard to the need to respect a country’s common identity with ALL that this entails, and has compromised the ability to retain control over adverse impacts brought about by external interference from EU policies. To sit by and watch with hands tied behind our backs as significant impacts are dismissed without fair consideration or willingness to seek solutions, is no longer an option that leavers are willing to risk further. 

The factors over which control has been lost has been debated in detail on EOS, but sadly, if we are honest these uncomfortable realities have never been properly acknowledged by those intent on a greater federal state of Europe.

The risks of remaining have been evaluated and a decision was made in our usual democratic way, where voting mechanisms were considered a proper means of addressing the issue, and where expectations were that their democratic vote would be respected.

Thread: Brexit and residency


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