| The Comments |
Hugh your observation, "Life is full of uncertainties and paradoxes and very few get economic or growth forecasts correct, but one thing for sure is that trade has taken place for centuries and will continue to take place as business and corporations wield far more power than politicians and Eurocrats." is very true, and as you say the negatives that some posters report colour their judgement in the whole Brexit matter.
It is as you say, countries have traded for centuries without the involvement of the EU, and that is what the UK is returning to. Nobody says it will not be hard, but at the same time it will not be total meltdown as some here try to indicate. Where these posters overlook things is that the industry within the EU is not just going to cancel all orders with British business, though they may well renegotiate the terms of trading.
When all is done trading will still exist between the EU and UK, but not in the same way enjoyed in recent years, and almost certainly not the end many here gleefully forecast.
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Mickeyfinn,
You describe the "elephant in the room, which is Brexit".
It could equally be argued that the elephant in the room if not careful could be EU bureaucratic intransigence and inflexibility to reform, with purposeful intent to scapegoat a member state following a democratic decision to execute their right to leave the EU.
But let's hope that calm rational intellectual thought prevails between neighbouring states, and that the UK Govt's repeated intent to seek out mutually beneficial outcomes is received in the spirit intended, rather than play political ideological divisive “games” with innocent citizens lives, that have the potential to damage tolerant and inclusive societies.
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The U.K. Is no longer a tolerant and inclusive society
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Your opinion pp.
Try telling that to the millions of Londoners of all races, colour and creeds who will go to work as normal today
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“The price of greatness is responsibility “When a country leaves the union, there is no punishment. There is no price to pay to leave, but we must settle the accounts. No more, no less. We will not ask the British to pay a single euro for something they have not agreed to as a member.”
Michel Barnier Chief EU negotiator. 22 March
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 23/03/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn the UK will pay for project's that have been approved and started by the EU in full thats the British Goverments way of taking care of business ...but should not have to pay anything towards projects that have only been proposed or projects that have not started.…. if the EU wants to give billions of EU member state's money to the Eastern Europeans to build motorway's and the likes then that is a problem for the remaining EU membership to sort out.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 23/03/2017.
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Well guys, if I was leaving the board of a company or overseeing the leaving of any other board member, I would require a set of accounts signed off by an independent chartered accountant before I agreed to make or receive payments towards any ongoing projects or commitments. That would be the only fair method of finalising any agreements.
Anyone hearing of this being discussed?? In fact does anyone know when the last set of accounts were signed off? Bunch of cowboys eh
Also PP, I know you like to make big statements. It the one about the UK and tolerance is so way off the mark you may need to hang your head in shame. The UK is the most tolerant society in the world, now how's that for a statement.
after the events of yesterday, if anyone is wanting to break up the resolve and tolerance of the UK, they have to realise they will not win and never will, the intolerant among us are the ones who should leave the UK NOW.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 23/03/2017.
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Best wishes, Brian
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I think Barnier's statement is clear enough. Any spending treaties or agreements the UK signed off on during its membership will require a financial contribution. In practice that means all of them. How that figure is arrived at however will take an awful lot of number crunching and horse trading.
I don't believe the UK wants to avoid its obligations to the EU and clearly it's not going to be in its interests so to do.
I have read some rightist Tory MP's appear to want the UK to walk away from the entire negotiations and not pay a penny. The consequences of such action will make leaving the EU more of a disaster than it already is.
In truth the EU holds all the cards and the UK will need to dig deep to gain any favours. I don't recall the outers mentioning the costs to leave in the campign either. Clearly dishonesty ruled during that referendum process and now the bills needs to be paid and the costs will not just be monetary..
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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We should never forget that for every act of evil there are thankfully thousands of good caring acts and such an act of evil must never define us as a country, a country in the main that prides itself on caring sufficiently for our fellow men and women, but in such a way as to enhance social inclusivity.
The failures of social integration can lead to “social fragmentation; widening disparities and inequalities; and strains on individuals, families, communities and institutions as a result of the rapid pace of social change, economic transformation, migration and major dislocations of population.
Therefore it's essential to pay sufficient heed to the SPEED of social change and wherever possible take all adequate and fair measures to monitor and adequately respond wherever the pace of change threatens such essential and caring fabrics of society.
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If Barniers statement is clear enough, I don't see a reference to 'signing off' in the post put on here Micky?
By signing off, do you mean voting for?
I do see a reference in the statement to ’we must settle accounts'. This gives rise to my comments concerning the bunch of cowboys approach the EU has to accounts themselves, by not producing any.
The UK have never dodged commitment, we pay more to the UN than other nations (except USA), we give greater amounts in foreign aid, we have a history of fairness and 'doing the right thing'.
i don't really see that reading between lines and using it to promote an argument is valid though?
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Best wishes, Brian
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The EU holds all the cards: Micky, please tell us how.
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The only cards the EUSSR holds are jokers...
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Junkers Jokers? Hmmm. That sounds a good description 🤡
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Best wishes, Brian
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Micky, the EU holds all the cards? you are joking, how would you feel as an organisation to have the second biggest contributor to your club leave and take with it such a massive contribution? The EU would be well warned to be very careful in their negotiations, as if they set favourable relations with the UK , at least they then have an opportunity to claw back some of that very large contribution in the form of trade agreements, ETC. If they dont and it results in a hard Brexit, any benefit the EU could negotiate are going to dry up, with a corresponding hardship for the EU.
Brexit works in both directions Mickey.
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Actually Lads, my comments had nothing to do with yesterday's events in London, it was a response to ads comments,
"It could equally be argued that the elephant in the room if not careful could be EU bureaucratic intransigence and inflexibility to reform, with purposeful intent to scapegoat a member state following a democratic decision to execute their right to leave the EU.
But let's hope that calm rational intellectual thought prevails between neighbouring states, and that the UK Govt's repeated intent to seek out mutually beneficial outcomes is received in the spirit intended, rather than play political ideological divisive “games” with innocent citizens lives, that have the potential to damage tolerant and inclusive societies."
The rhetoric on this site regarding the Brexit Vote proves my case about the UK now as opposed to where it was.
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A long time ago I was in university, and I found it hard to read academic text, it was neccessary then but now it isnt, I have to say I still do find it hard!
Some posts on here are full of academic style writing, which i'm not afraid to say make my eyes glaze over. Now I understand the Brexit subject can be complex, but I would rather see people on a site like this absorbing information and giving their opinion with the odd reference, than a full scrip of acedemic or economic text.
Any chance we can get to that kind of original thought level (even if just for my sake!"!).
Sorry if I sound like a dodgy lecturer guys!
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Best wishes, Brian
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It is a nationalistic British point of view to believe the country will be missed by the remaining 27 European nations. In reality most will be glad to see the back of a nation that was never really committed to the aims and directions of the project.
Yes the budget contributions will mean certain projects are cut back but I believe Britain leaving the EU will strengthen the solidarity of member nations not weaken it.
There is no scenario in Brexit that makes it possible that Britain will prosper more outside the block than as a member. Most supporters of leaving are in almost total and absolute denial about that. Over the coming months and years that fact will slowly dawn. When it does what then?
Will there be a volte face. Will there be a political movement that gains enough courage or support to say publically that the British have made a colossal error? Of course the current leaders can always say we were only doing what the people wanted. It's the peoples fault not ours. A win win situation and maybe they would be right.
However the real error in my view was holding the referendum vote in the first place and that decision may yet in future be held in infamy.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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** EDITED - Against forum rules **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/23/2017 2:28:00 PM.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Newspaper reports.....
However, on a net basis, Britain was the second largest contributor to the EU budget last year. It put €10.8bn more into the EU pot last year than it took out. Only Germany paid more on a net basis.
Micky you said this.... Losing 10 plus billions a year I can see why they wont miss us.
It is a nationalistic British point of view to believe the country will be missed by the remaining 27 European nations. In reality most will be glad to see the back of a nation that was never really committed to the aims and directions of the project.
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Hi Moderator,
I considered my last post to be relevant to the debate, even though it referred to another posters overall comments.
However I respect your judgement, but will continue to hold the view that is now removed.
Thanks for taking the interest to intervene.
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Best wishes, Brian
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