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I agree with windtalker, Cameron gives his mp's his blessing to campaign as they wish on one hand, and on the other hand bans senior cabinet ministers access to documentation that could further their cause, bad move Prime Minister.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Mr Cameron l am glad you are not standing as leader of the conservative party at the next general election with the way you and your cronies are handling the EU in /out vote the conservative party would certainly lose and then what have wee got left a half-witted totally out dated Jeremy Corbin, now how would Corbin handle the EU in out vote ever time l have heard him speak when asked what he would do he fails to give a answers to the problem just slaggs off the conservative party with no solution.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/02/2016.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/02/2016.
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Cameron should sack the MP's that want to be in the out campaign. We cannot afford to have the country governed for the next six months by people that will have to infight.
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What, give them a free vote and then sack them for employing that right? Who do you think they are, Labour and the Syrian conflict?
Civil Servants are there to support the government of the day. If the official government line is to stay in then the CS follows that line. Helping those with a conflicting view of the government would put the CS in a very awkward position.
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If 'sacking' means taking away the tory whip, then it would mean a general election, what with the majority being only 12.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Perrypower1You can have a democratic free vote as long as you vote for me is that what you a trying to say,also civil servants are public servant's, and we also have the freedom of information act to consider .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/02/2016.
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Hephastus wrote:
I agree with windtalker, Cameron gives his mp's his blessing to campaign as they wish on one hand, and on the other hand bans senior cabinet ministers access to documentation that could further their cause, bad move Prime Minister.
Actually as I understand it the EU documents in question are classified and listed for Privvy Council member eyes only.
The 'out' brigade are clutching at any excuse to discredit the majority of the Conservative Party who support 'stay'. They should resign on mass and join UKIP if they had any honour. Of the entire Labour Party only six MP's are in the 'out' camp.
I know it's a free vote but if this fratricide continues it will damage the stability and credibility of government.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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It does not seem fair to me that England, because of numbers, dictate the outcome of in or out
If you always vote Monster Raving Looney and the Conservatives, Labour or Liberal D's always get in, is that unfair?
If England votes marginally to leave and Scotland votes overwhelmingly to stay then we stay, is that unfair?
Think it might be called democracy?
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Yep, join UKIP and force a general election, great idea. 
Are there any 'out's' in UKIP by the way?
This message was last edited by Hephaestus on 28/02/2016.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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'Civil Servants are there to support the government of the day. If the official government line is to stay in then the CS follows that line. Helping those with a conflicting view of the government would put the CS in a very awkward position.'
It would be better if the government instructed the CS to provide the relevant information to both sides of the argument.
The 75 referendum was widely seen as rigged. If this can also be said about the 2016 referendum then it makes it more likely we will be back here again in the future.
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It's not the votes of the English that will decide the outcome of the referendum but the votes of the UK as a whole Tadd. If you think that all the people living in England and eligible to vote are English then you are very mistaken, and that goes for people living in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This is getting rather silly. As tteedd points out, It's a democracy, get over it.
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Sack them from cabinet positions. That is all he can do and he should. They can't be part of the inner circle, (cabinet ) if they are against the leader. Then the issue if prove ledger documents becomes a mute point.
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So the prime minister is unable to withdraw the tory whip, news to me.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Better still keep the cabinet sack Cameron and install Boris as ( Puppet Master ).
This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/02/2016.
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It makes no sense to remove the whip when given a free vote. It makes sense to shuffle them to the back benches.
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unbelievable! Surely a free vote means just that, the whip doesn't come into it. MP's like everone else are free to vote according to their beliefs. Their votes don't count anymore than yours or mine. I really don't understand where all this agro is coming from, can't we all agree to disagree and be civil about it. Debate by all means but neither group has the moral high ground.
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With regard to the following " Cameron gives his mp's his blessing to campaign as they wish on one hand, and on the other hand bans senior cabinet ministers access to documentation that could further their cause " can anyone explain if this regulation (see below) has any relevance to the current situation:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Al14546
The purpose of this Regulation is to make access to the documents of the European institutions easier for citizens. They may access any type of documents, subject to the conditions defined in the Regulation and the exceptions laid out therein. It applies to all documents held by an institution, that is to say, documents drawn up or received by it and in its possession, in all areas of European Union (EU) activity.
Beneficiaries are any EU citizens and any natural or legal persons residing or having their headquarters in an EU country.
Exceptions and rights of third parties
The institutions can refuse access to a document where disclosure would undermine the protection of:
- the public interest as regards public security, defence, international relations, and the financial, monetary or economic policy of the EU or an EU country;
- privacy and the integrity of an individual, in particular in accordance with EU legislation regarding the protection of personal data;
- a person's commercial interests;
- court proceedings and legal advice;
- the purpose of inspections, investigations and audits.
The European institutions may refuse to disclose a particular document if this is justified by an overriding public interest.
Access to an internal document drawn up by an institution may be refused if there is a risk that its disclosure would seriously undermine that institution's decision-making process, unless there is an overriding public interest in its disclosure.
As regards third-party documents , the institution must consult the third party with a view to assessing whether an exception is applicable.
Do you think this might be relevant, and the denial of access to information has been evoked on the principle that the Govt considers it would undermine " the financial, monetary or economic policy of the EU or an EU country"?
In which case how can the EU ever provide information necessary to its citizens for them to determine the pros and cons of a country exiting the EU, if access to relevant information will always be denied them on these grounds?
This message was last edited by ads on 28/02/2016.
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The simple albeit unpalatable answer is that euro sceptic MP's should not hold a portfolio at this juncture. The government is lead by DC. He has stated his point of view which becomes the official government view. Ministers that don't agree are not forced to vote with the government but should not presume to be party to those aspects of the government that has a Euro Positive agenda. If being the head of a department requires them to have knowledge of the government EU strategy they should step aside or be shuffled if they don't have the honor to go on their own merit.
stands to reason that if the government told the 'out' campaign they had to disclose their strategy and all documents before working on them or releasing them the outs would shout foul from the top of Big Ben.
You can't have your cake and mine too.
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Far East trading on currency market in full swing at this time. Sterling be sold off having already fallen to 157.57 yen to one pound. Option players setting up positions that see a fall to 121 yen to the pound by June. That will make Japanese imported goods 25% more expensive.
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