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Best wishes, Brian
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Tadd
The whole point of Ads last 2 posts is to highlight the facy that over the last 5-7 years NO other country in the EU has seen the level of immigration seeking work that the UK has received, unprecedented, yes, unexpected, very likely, but the point that there is work available in the UK at reasonable rates compared to elsewhere has not been lost on a number of EU and non EU citizens.
Yes we need immigrants to strengthen our workforce, our country and our cosmoplitan understandings as well as to fill jobs that have been created because the UK s economy has grown since 2007 whereas the EU has stagnated, offering less jobs to Southern and Eastern European nations.
Of course market forces will reduce immigration, IF the UK economy does falter because of Brexit, fewer jobs will be available and many will return home to fill the jobs at the all the UK businesses relocating into Europe.
It also stands to reason the a country with a strong economy has been expected to help others out in Europe by making net contributions to the EU budget as well as freely accepting EU citizens
BUT can you guys not see the point that eventually the infrastructure suffers under the strain and at some stage a halt needs to be considered.
It is possible some of what we currently actually pay to the EU may find its way back into our NHS our schools, our farms and our deprived areas but surely we are best placed to decide where these subsidies end up rather than Brussels who appear at times to habd over money to many weird and wonderful schemes.
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Hugh_man
If it can be seen
But poor investment lack of planning and a benefits system that gives to all is the fault of the uk govt not the eu
Any growth needs planning and investment
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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BBC independent study of EU spending their budget.
We examined the 2014 budget, to find out what the EU spends the money on.
That year, the EU spent €138.44bn (£106.13bn).
Of that, almost 80% went to two main areas:
- agriculture and fisheries
- development of poorer areas of the EU
Most of the rest was spent on three other areas:
- improving the EU's growth through investing in research, innovation and education
- the EU's foreign policy and international aid
- the administrative costs of running the EU institutions
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Best wishes, Brian
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Any detail of where the grants to agriculture and fisheries were directed?
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Oh come on Tadd as Ads explained, the UK generous benefits system was put in place to help people out of poverty whilst they were looking fir work.
Its not the UKs fault that net migration has been far greater than ever imagined for 7 or 8 years, it is due to the growth in jobs and economic growth achieved in the UK since the Crash.
Brian already commented that doctors from Lithuania can earn more as fruit pickers in the U.K., that is not the fault of the UK attempting to ensure living wages are achievable.
It is actually an example of the success of the UK.
Success though brings other problems that we have not been able to control.
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Hugh_man
Yes the uk has been successful and eu citizens have contributed to that success but the uk failed to plan and invest for this success and growth
So growth promotes jobs and therefore attracts labour from those who needs jobs and that's not the UK's fault who's fault is it and is it a fault or an opportunity
Helping people out of poverty yes great system but is an abused system by citizens and immigrants alike yet the govt do little about it other than blame the eu and immigration
Lithuanian doctors wages is a problem for Lithuania and the a more united eu with equality for all would help but no the rich want it all for themselves
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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How on earth is any government going to be able to plan for economic growth, when it has to await the fruits of its policies.
Economic growth is both opportunity and a concern to keep up with demand for housing, schools, infrastructure and hospitals. That is the challenge of government, stop whinging about them and do something about it if you know better.
Governmentvspending is limited to its receipts and sensible levels of borrowing, it is not infinite.
You do seem to live in a type of utopia where no one abuses systems and you cannot see or accept that this government has been attempting welfare reform but you may have noticed it's not always easy to p,ease everyone.
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NHS = desperate for money
Education = desperate for money
Social care = desperate for money
Does not sound like a very successful country to me. The solution is to raise taxes, corporate and private citizen, not be planning to lower them. Pensions will be hit hard from 2020 onwards.
if we did not have Immigrants to fill the NHS and Social care vacancies then the system would have collapsed already. Lithuanian doctors don't have to pick fruit. There are loads of jobs for them in the NHS.
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The benefit cap reform has apparently resulted in greater poverty and large numbers of children being separated from their parents, families evicted and left homeless, a rapid growth and dependence on food banks, whilst they struggle to find work that pays sufficiently to meet rising rents, plus proliferation of zero hours contracts where the insecurity of working hours has made it nigh on impossible to organise childcare at short notice, let alone afford the childcare given the lower wages that have arisen as another economic consequence of over supply and migrants willing to accept lower wages in certain sectors.
This vicious downward spiral of knock on impacts from swift and unplanned migration alongside reform of the benefit system and paying down the UK debt, cannot continue indefinitely and the economic realities and stark unintended consequences on those most vulnerable in our society need to be faced. To suggest a clamp down of benefits in complete ignorance of the uncomfortable realities and knock on effects that have arisen as a direct consequence of swift large-scale migration is callous in the extreme and does not sit comfortably with all too many in the UK.
This message was last edited by ads on 14/04/2017.
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PP
NHS = desperate for money also = too many patients.
Education = desperate for money also = too much overcrowding in schools
Social care = desperate for money also ='the Uk having a very long life for its citizens and a better standard of living.
Lithuanian doctors can't work as doctors here because we don't have the funding for limitless doctors (you said the nhs are desperate for money, you can't have it both ways)
So the EU experiment means the richer countries can afford to have highly qualified people picking fruit, while the poorer nations have to have less doctors in their population, meaning they are going backwards in health care, education and social standards, and will not live as long as the richer countries population do.
I think your missing the points here PP, there may be a problem with our population density due to immigration, this may be putting a strain on our services and it may also be denying the poorer countries of their talent.
Even you have to admit this is a possibility PP.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hugh_man
It may utopia but not impossible with good planning and priority to the needs of the citizens
Immigration has helped economic growth
So I have asked this before if 20,000 people or more moved from a poorer region of the uk to a wealthier region for work how would that region cope with services such as schools nhs etc
Who funds services - the tax payer via the govt
Living longer again needs planning funding etc
Bad planning bad systems all the fault of the uk govt and the greed of a few
Easy to blame eu and the immigrants
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd. Are we back to the Norman tebbit answer (who said get on yer bike for work, but apparently was only talking about his dad).
To move around the UK you need to sell your house, or leave a tenancy and find another. The answer in (as you call it poorer areas) is to make your living where you are, adopt, adapt, change, improve, retrain reinvest etc. Make sure your part of the world is surviving and propsering. Believe it or not the scroungers are evenly spread through the country and there are nowhere near as many as people make out.
Some things don't need government intervention they need a will, yes a political will, but not simply hand outs. Planning is sometimes overrated in government, they can plan for the wrong things or in the wrong way eh The so called poorer regions in the UK an have a much better quality of life and surroundings, better access to health care etc. But leave it to the government and they will make sure the money is invested in areas that the greater number of votes exist. And the graph about the EU spending shows rather same pattern
immigration however means people turn up without housing and can request shelter, employment, benefits without having to consider roots and family history in the region. It's an imbalance we need to address.
Of course I will be vilified for being an anti EU brexiteer who blames immigration for everything in some quarters, but I think we know each other well enough now to know that's not the case.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 14/04/2017.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Immigration means they get on their bike sell their house or give up lease etc
Mis immigrants I am sure would rather make a living where they live but they recognise and follow opportunity
Yes scroungers exist all over but far more in poorer regions
Working together for the benfit of all is the answer not just the uk we are all human beings and have the same needs and we shouldwork for equality across the globe the 4 state uk tries and could do better. The 28 state eu tries bit could do better
Going it alone and devolution is not the answer
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd,
Once again you misrepresent the message which is swift large scale migration (with unintended consequences???) is ONE contributory factor that should not be ignored or denied and to prove that benefit reform IS happening which you constantly deny, but with consequences. It appears as too much ( remote) generalisation without facing some uncomfortable realities.
Don't shoot the messenger perhaps!
Happy Easter, all ( for some!)
This message was last edited by ads on 14/04/2017.
This message was last edited by ads on 14/04/2017.
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Ads
If there is a need and a demand for work then what is the problem with migration to fill that need especially if the locals can't meet that demand or won't do the work
We had the same in the past as mentioned before
Benefit reform is happening and it needs more targeting the scroungers instead of those who really need it. Getting people back to work and relocating or getting on their bike to meet the demand is one answer
Yes there are problems but it is not the fault of the eu or migration
How does the eu migration compare to the west Indian and Asian migration of recent years
Immigration was an easy target for the brexit leave campaign and so wrong in so many aspects
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Usual ads rhetoric blaming migrants for all the nations woes.
Thank you Tadd for setting the record straight!
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A scenario a little bit off thread but let's see
An average white British family with 2 kids, parents out of work and no work for 5 years with no prospects of work living on benefits and struggling
A well paid job is offered to them in an area with affordable housing (rent or buy), good schools, good NHS facilities etc.
The area has 99% Asian population (all British citizens) and many work at the facility where the job is
A similar scenario where the population of the area is 99% eastern European (all EU citizens)
Should the family relocate, take the job and the house? How many families would consider this?
Would anyone on here relocate to these areas if they were in this scenario?
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Where are these communities Tadd?
They do not exist - so why the hypothesis?
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