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Realism Micky
Well the crunch time is almost upon us. We will find out.
Recently the EU fuctionaries began to realise that what is good for us is probably good for them too. So all of a sudden they had to think of a different penalty and came up with the 90BEuro price tag. Someone has calculated that it is really 9BEuros in the other direction.
Last time this subject came up we got a lecture on renageing on committments when nobody had said anything about not paying justified dues. Please not again.
Lets hope both sides are properly prepared and have their feet rooted on the ground. It is not the time to be thinking of penalties but a decent result for both sides.
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Thank you for the sentiment Hugh. I feel just as you, we should respect anyone from anywhere, Patriotism does not mean war as Mickeyfinn seems to think, it can and often does mean peace, as the British have proven many times throughout history. I feel, just as you say, that we should all be patriotic about our country and origins, we owe it to our place of birth. This does not stop us from sympathising, even encouraging other nations, even the EU.
What i do find repugnant is someone such as Mickeyfinn, who years ago fled his country of birth, but kept certain perks extended to him, then claims we should all be "Good Europeans", give our thanks to Brussels and forsake our national identity. Well Mickey i personally dont feel that is what the EU is about.
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so what is all this crap about Free Trade Deals?
I'm with you virtually all the way Hugh but
No tarriffs, no customs checks!
But we do not need a complicated new 'deal' all we need is to continue the status quo as far as tarriffs are concerned.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 12/03/2017.
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"Lets hope both sides are properly prepared and have their feet rooted on the ground. It is not the time to be thinking of penalties but a decent result for both sides"
Well said Tteedd, i totally agree, what is to stop both sides negotiating something along those lines? Something to benefit all sides. Something Mickeyfinn dare not countenance , maybe the pension will not last to the conclusion of negotiations?
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Tteedd
No answers so far from the brexiters on if they would be happy if the uk remained in the single market and kept freedom of movement
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd - Tteeds answer unless you missed it and I agree with him. If you need it more clearly - No freedom of movement as demanded by the EUSSR and No single Market as it is part of bring in the EUSSR
Tteedd
No answers so far from the brexiters on if they would be happy if the uk remained in the single market and kept freedom of movement
Still asking the exiters will they be happy if the UK remain in the single market with freedom of movement or not?"
Not sure if I should answer your Q or not Tad. All it usually gets is a misunderstanding, and it has been answered many times already, but here goes:
Single Market
We voted out of the EU. The single market is part of the EU and " 'Exit means 'Exit ". However all sensible people want a good trading relationship. 'Tarriff free' being the gold standard, and there is no reason, given good will, why we should not acheive that because that is what we have at the moment.
Freedom of movement
Is a symptom of the fact that we do not have control of our own laws and asperations. Our last administration made promises it could not achieve because we are in the EU. We want democratic control and we also want our own parliament to be supreme and represent the British people. If our government, that we elect, wants to stop immigration then it should be able to do so. If our government wants to allow selective skilled immigration then it should be free to do so. If it wants free unfetterred immigration then that would also be in it's remit (but it would loose the next election). Which brings us full circle, we want control of all our law making, not just on free movement, from the UK
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JarvI
Yes but the uk govt still have the opportunity to remain in the single market etc so would you be happy if they did
What can you do if they do? There will be no choice or referendum
The single market withdrawal requires another article to be acted on article 50 is not the vehicle for this think it is article 27
It is all guesswork and no what if's no plan B (yet)
A mutually benefit outcome would be good but the EU have yo remain to their rules and simply can't give any single state preferential treatmentioned especially one that has nothing to offer in return
BTW who or what is EUSSR
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Roberto What i do find repugnant is someone such as Mickeyfinn, who years ago fled his country of birth, but kept certain perks extended to him,
Really what are they please explain. I would love to know what 'perks' I have had extended to me that I'm unaware of.
It is one thing entirely to be a patriot quite another to be a nationalist. Pride or hubris is an ugly spectacle.
I believe nationalism and religion of all shades are basically the same thing. It provides humans with emotional comfort whilst at the same time it imprisons them.
Setting yourself free from both is very enlightening. I recommend it.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey, what about a pension and maybe the winter fuel grant as two things for starters?
Secondly, who mantioned a Nationalist, i seem to remember we were talking of Patriotism which is not an ugly spectacle if you are properly adjusted to the concept. and i dont recall the subject of religion cropping up at all.
When something seems to hit a nerve you seem to have a knee jerk attitude of throwing in subjects that havent even been mentioned, let alone discussed. Are you sure you are not a slippery politician in another life?
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You are making this viciously personal now. You know nothing of my personal situation. Simply because I empathised with expats living in Europe struggling with the UK exchange rate you make assumptions.
It's the old addage when the argument gets lost attack the messenger.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Tteedd OK let's have a compromise the UK will accept access to the single market and freedom of movement .....If we can have a controlled breading program like they have in China.
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windtalker
Tteedd OK let's have a compromise the UK will accept access to the single market and freedom of movement .....If we can have a controlled breading program like they have in China.
Oh, goody. Can I make my own harvesters and baps?
Robertt8696
Mickey, what about a pension and maybe the winter fuel grant as two things for starters?
So what about the pension? If someone has paid into the system all their lives, please explain why they shouldn't get the pension because they live in Torremolinos and not Bournemouth. If you visit Spain (or any other country) should you give up your pension for that amount of time? Stupid argument
And, in case it passed you by, Brits (who have paid into the system) don't get the winter fuel allowance in Spain. Nor do they get pension credits or carer's allowances either.
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Micky, when the UK negotiators do a deal that keeps us in the single market and we have a limited free movement arrangement (that is very wide ranging and free) then Brexiters will have to suck it up. That is the most likely outcome and the governmwnt has all but made it explicit. There is no need for a plan b when plan a is to keep what we have got but under a new name. After all Brexit means whatever May wants it to mean. The referendum does not force her to do anything. No promises regarding Freedom of Movement or leaving the the single market have been made. She is playing to the Brexidiots because they are bleaters but hold not authority. Tell them what they want to hear but do what is right for the UK...that is what the message really is and has always been. The government has no problem breaking manifesto pledges regarding tax why are they going to fret about an advisory referendum that went against the wishes of the government.
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Mickeyfinn, there is nothing viciously personal at all, its just properly reported observation. its not just you that get benefits from the UK while living out of the UK and the system. You are in no way unique, dont regard it as a personal attack, i feel ALL expats get benefits from the UK while being outside the residence area, I.E, the UK.
If you cant cope with the flux of the exchange rate its only you to blame, for leaving the UK, and putting yourself in a different monetary system, and also the argument has not got lost, its still the same, and i have not shot any messenger, you just feel that way. If you cannot show reasoned debate that is truthful and honest , and verifiable i suggest you cease to contribute anymore to this thread.
I dont shoot the messenger, its the other saying, "if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen"
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robert8696 what business is it of yours to dictate how or where any of us spend pensions we paid into!
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Robert
Perrypower and Mickey are the same person
Beware Mate
Love Hugh
EMPATHY think you may be confused with that WORD try CRITICISM that's more FITTING
1200 posts YOU could have done much more to FUEL your EGO some CHARITABLE work PERHAPS
YOU can now leave us MINNIONS to our DEMISE
AU REVOIR MICK x
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 12/03/2017.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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jarvi,
if the governmwnt decides to permit everyone legally living in the UK to vote do you think that they will lose if they decide to keep freedom of movement?
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Bobaol, yes it did pass me by on the current legislation, and is still possible in some EU countries, so i stand by my statement. And if you remove your money and assets from the UK, why not stop your pension? you have invested in another economic area. Either apply for support from that country, or find a job there.
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Thanks for the heads up Hugh, well if what you say is true, Mickey/Perry is also an internet troll as well as opinionated!
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Perry, i did not dictate what you allege, what i did say was why should anyone who has fled our shores get benefits when they have left? There was NO mention of SPENDING a pension whatsoever. Another case of attempting to turn a statement against the poster. Try some reasoned truthful debate.
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