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Choose the positive.- You have choice- you are master of your attitude-choose the POSITIVE, the CONSTRUCTIVE. Optimism is a faith that leads to success."
Positive thoughts.
Well, Micky, as far as I can make out the majority of the people who want out haven't mentioned to many problems should this happen, many, like myself, have made comments to the likes, of no one knows what will happen....
Now the people who are hoping and praying we stay in, including pretty much all the government figures that count, keep on telling us "Outers" that war could / might be a possibility...Sterling will drop rock bottom...Jobs will be lost...Business's will close...The latest is House price's will fall by as much as 18%...The list of failures is endless, so it seems...
So all I can assume from all of this is that the "Inners" are very much more "Negative" then the "Outers"
And if all these things when, and if, we should leave did happen, how would we know? As most of what the wise one's are telling us is happening right now, except they wont admit it because to them it isn't happening.
I don't know who mentioned that should / if we leave house prices will fall by as much as 18%, who ever it was has got that one correct, if we leave he could say with all honestly..."Don't say I didn't warn you" if they did fall, thats the type of fools we have in power, everyone of us general public people know that house prices rise and fall, at todays constant rise's it wont keep up, so no doubt we are due for a fall, by how much I don't know.
Well now. Looks to me that the 'INNERS' are being slightly more 'NEGATIVE' then any of us 'POSITIVE' outers.
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It was announced yesterday that the 15 years residency rule is definative in respect of UK ex-pats voting on UK affairs. I find this to be very fair as it appears that many of the inners wish to run with both the hare and the hounds. 'I have a UK pension so should have a vote on UK affairs' doesn't wash with me, I'm voting for me, not someone who lives permanently in Spain and is concerned about pension rights and exchange rates, but then again I wager that the most vociferous forum inners don't even have a vote.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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This message was last edited by RIVIERAESTATES on 21/05/2016.
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It was announced yesterday that the 15 years residency rule is definative in respect of UK ex-pats voting on UK affairs.
I would think it reasonable to extend this to 20 years but only if there was a reciprocal 20 years or more for those arriving in the UK to be eligible to apply for a vote.
On the whole 'I and my forefathers were born in the UK' washes more with me than 'I have just arrived and think I know what is good for you'. But there has to be some limit if you feel you would rather live elsewhere. 20 years seems to separate retirees from economic migrants.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 21/05/2016.
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"Let me just remind everybody that it was the Treasury and George Osborne who said when we came into power in 2010 we couldn't trust Treasury reports because they were always fiddled with by Chancellors of the Exchequer.
"So, we gave that over to the OBR that is independent because we couldn't trust Treasury reports.
"Now what we have had is a whole series of Treasury reports telling us the world is going to end, we are going to end up with lower house prices, the economy is going to be bad."
So exactly who is telling lies about the liars, or are the liars telling so many lies they cant remember what lies they have told.
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Baz1946:
Britain has been ordered by Brussels to build more houses – to cope with all the EU immigrants.
The European Commission warned the UK is heading for an ‘acute’ housing crisis caused by massive population growth.
It admitted that first-time buyers were being hit particularly hard and the situation could worsen, with official projections saying the UK needs at least 220,000 new houses a year. But, rather than acknowledging the clamour in the UK for stricter border controls to ease demand, the Commission ordered Britain to ‘take further steps to boost housing supply’.
The demand for more building is contained in a report into Britain’s housing market which was quietly slipped out on Wednesday.
Of course more media nonsense."
The last underlined couple of lines I find quite disturbing, as I wasn't aware the EU did underhand dealings.
Jokes apart, who is it that thinks they have found a problem? Like it's a fresh problem that has just arisen, when just about every sensible sane person in the UK has known of this problem for, what? The last 10 / 15 years or so....Oops sorry, it's not the sane one's that know of this, and want out..Is it?"
Mickyfinn,
Whilst you all like to dismiss reports such as this and the Immigration Deniers amongst you will be up in arms, Osborne and Co are a complete bunch of clowns who should go back to school and learn the basic principle of demand and supply. All the talk is about supply without addressing the demand issues. Successive governments haven't built enough homes, and schools, and hospitals to meet the demand. Lets look at real issues that affect real people living in the UK.
I had my house valued recently, a staggering £100k more I thought the valuation would be, £200k more than the last time I had it values about 4 years ago, meaning the house 'value' is up by 50% in the last four years. you do the math as they say.
My daughter and her husband have just moved house into a rental costing £1,675 a month from another rental that was £1,375 a month. The house they moved out of was bought by the owner for £235K in 2004 and has just sold for £425k.
In all cases I’m talking about suburban 3 bed semi's.
Osborne has warned that house values will go down by 18% if we Brexit, dishonestly the forecast is the effect on future house prices rises, not the effect on current house prices.
Being a realist, I would welcome a house price fall, it's fool's gold and when I downsize, It wouldn't worry me that the value of my house has gone down, proportionately, with other properties. Maybe the balance will sort my daughter (who is in her forties) and her husband out with a deposit. Problem is, high house prices mean unaffordable mortgages for more people than if the house prices were lower.
"Last Whites of the East End" is a documentary coming up on Tuesday at 10.45pm (UK) on BBC1. Should be an interesting program for those of you who don't understand the social and societal change in the UK which has been caused by mass migration.
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Once more you blame the EU for successive British government failures. The EU is not responsible for:
UK house price rises.
Immigration from the rest of the world.
Housing shortages, lack of house building in the last decade.
Council houses being sold off to tenants.
The EU is quite right to tell the British to build more houses that are affordable. Migrants from the EU who want to work in the UK and contribute to the economy need somewhere to live. Mr Corbyn in a speech yesterday committed his party to build 100,000 new council houses per year if he is elected in 2020.
The problem with the current Conservative government is that they will not interfere in the housing market. It's run by their own supporters who are doing very nicely thank you. If government intervenes and supply then exceeds demand prices will fall. Result political support from the Goldilocks middle englanders falls away and the Tories end up in opposition.
All the reasons for brexit I read on here and elsewhere apart from the odd one are moans and miscontent about UK government policies in the last twenty years. The EU however gets the blame for national government failure. It's more acceptable I suppose to blame something more remote and distant than the politics you may have actually supported at one time.
Voting for brexit will reduce EU migration because the uk economy will go into terminal decline. No one will want to work there anymore so your problems will be solved. Except the British will pay a high price. Collapsing house prices, inflation, higher taxation and food prices.
Personally I think the majority of British people who are not mired in prejudice can see that and will vote to remain.
Quote from todays Guardian.
City law firm Nabarro said on Friday that commercial property investors were adding “Brexit clauses” to contracts that will allow them to pull out of deals if the UK votes to leave on 23 June.
We have seen a marked increase in the number of contracts which include clauses to protect the position of buyers investing in UK real estate ahead of the referendum,” he said.
Investors are paying deposits that they will get back if leave wins. “Brexit is a leap into the unknown,” Carvalho said. “Brexit clauses are a pragmatic, legal response to that uncertainty.”
The CEO's of Britains leading supermarkets have said food prices will rise by 3% after a brexit vote. All the broad evidence of opinion currently available is a Brexit vote will be an economic disaster for the UK.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 22/05/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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It's sweaky bum time micky, what's next, fire, flood, pestilance and plague? 
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Still nothing from the outers that tell anyone what will happen in the event of an exit
how can anyone vote for something that has not been clearly agreed or thought out
Only thing most of them seem to do is bash the inners
As for the inners we more or less stay as we are with few concessions
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Its quite simple really. Do the benefits of exit from the EU justify the likely result? Are the well documented risks worth the reward. You cannot balance risk without any clear propect of reward.
Tadd is right the exiteers have no idea of the likely reward. So therefore it's all high risk and little else.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Actually it's the inners who tell the outers what they think will happen if Brexit succeeds, coversally the outers tell what they see happening now, they know what will happen if it fails, that being much the same as now. And as for the outers bashing the inners, I can't recall them calling the inners 'thickos'.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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there are many unanswered questions for the exiters but let's focus on one simple topic
If the UK vote to exit the EU will the UK join the EEA?
YES or NO
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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If the UK leaves the EU the the government of the day will be free to take whatever opportunities arise.
The do nothing in the first instance is attractive. Just assume zero tarrifs with the EU and see what happens. With our massive trade deficit with the EU any change in position by the EU after the two years are up would be shooting itself in the foot.
If you want a way out suggestion how about the whole of the commonwealth joining Canada and applying to join NAFTA?
But whatever, our government will be free to do as it likes - no point in assuming one option.
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If you want a way out suggestion how about the whole of the commonwealth joining Canada and applying to join NAFTA?
What, replace all those Poles with Mexicans? Or, even worse, Americans. Probably good for the baseball cap industry.
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Are the well documented risks worth the reward.
Can't let that go. What well documented risks? The scare stories?
The only well documented risks are those of staying:
Loss of democracy.
Corruption.
Uncontrolled immigration causing stress to our public services and concreting of the green belt.
Being part of a block with little if any economic growth.
Being steadily and continually over-ruled in favour of the Euro block.
Being at risk of more of the above from the access by further eastern countries.
Having less and less clout by being one of 28 going on 35.
etc.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 22/05/2016.
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MAIL ON SUNDAY COMMENT: Brexiteers' logic begins to crumble
As several giants of British retailing add their experienced voices to the anti-Brexit chorus in today’s Mail on Sunday, it is clearer than ever that the Leave campaigners are losing the economic argument.
They have failed to produce a substantial body of evidence that Britain will prosper or gain as a result of quitting the EU, and time is running out for them to do so.
The last tense and crucial period of the campaign is about to begin. From now on, a single error on either side could be fatal, and whoever can capture the initiative will probably keep it.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3602912/MAIL-SUNDAY-COMMENT-Brexiteers-logic-begins-crumble.html#ixzz49NTWnYaU
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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And we all know what you think about the Mail!
Larger retailers may worry about thier margins if they are faced by world imports free of EU tarriffs. Smaller or agile retailers will not be and it is win win for the customer.
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No free movement in NAFTA.
It is what we always wanted a free trade zone.
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tteedd wrote:-
Uncontrolled immigration causing stress to our public services and concreting of the green belt.
In the year to September 2015, an estimated 257,000 citizens from other EU countries migrated to the UK, and around 85,000 emigrated abroad. So net EU migration was around 172,000. If that number causes stress then it's a national government problem cutting budgets.
Being part of a block with little if any economic growth.
The EU is now starting to grow from the last recession. Spain is expected to have 3% annual growth this ear.
Loss of democracy.
The UK has more opt outs and veto powers than any other country. It's democracy (parliament) can vote against the EU if it chooses at any time.
Corruption.
The UK along with every nation on earth has it's own problems with corruption. MP's expenses being just one.
Being steadily and continually over-ruled in favour of the Euro block.
Don't understand that. Explain please?
Being at risk of more of the above from the access by further eastern countries.
Why is that a risk? Risk of what? EU migrants provide a skilled source of much needed labour at resonable cost. EU migrants work harder and complain less.
Having less and less clout by being one of 28 going on 35.
The UK retains it influence and power by being one of the largest contributors to the EU budget. It has 'clout' also by being a major nuclear power and player in NATO. Also it's economy is strong and it's financial services industries and trade generally influences the whole of Europe.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Still no answers in the event of an exit vote - in or out of EEA?
Why - because the exiters DON'T KNOW sames as they do not know if EU tarrifs will be removed or if export / import duites will be enforced, sames as they do not know if EU states will force UK citizens to have visas for travel, or if all existing agreetments between UK and EU member states will be renoegoiiated or not - so many unknowns
Also any application for membership of EEA might even be rejected
Any new ways of working with the EU/EEA that the UK may assume if the UK exit is NOT a one way decision and could easily be rejected by the EU members
Remember in the event of an exit any products manufactured in UK for sale into EU will still have to conform to EU standards e.g CE marking, as all none EU countries have to do now
Many EU regulations and directives will still apply to the UK if the UK exits and the UK wil have no choice but to comply (not very democtaric for a new independant UK)
One thing for sure if the UK exits we won't get a vote on in or out of EEA and IMO just as important
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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