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I know many a British person who lives in Europe and claims means tested pension credits and incapacity benefit from the UK illegally, winter fuel allowance, pay no tax and have the life of Riley.
Many in Spain work and don't pay tax as well. Both the British and Spanish governments have hotlines where you can 'grass' on them but somehow it does not seem British.
However this is all getting away from Brexit. Perhaps when we have left both sides will look more carefully at their 'guests'.
Roll on the next bit of real Brexit news for us to discuss.
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Tadd1966 Mr Cameron went over cap in hand pre Brexit and made a formal request that the UK intended to stop Benefits /NHS health tourist and the likes for none UK residents, the EU refused the request and said they will only allow changes to the UK system when the UK system collapses ,so this problem was caused by the EU, and we would not need any nurse's or doctors from the EU or anywhere else if we did not have the whole of Europe wanting free NHS treatment .What part of that don't you understand. This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2016.
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Tadd, TeamGB, Micky and all the rest of you that are defending this Great Country. Thank you for standing up to those folk on here who at every chance do nothing but try to run down people who were not born in the UK.
It is easy to see why Brexit will fail to remove us from the EEA and maybe the EU; ordinary decent people will not be able to align themselves with the likes of the 'at breaking point' brigade.
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Brexit negotiating position...Mrs May repeated her view that an early agreement could be reached guaranteeing the rights of Polish citizens in Britain as long as the rights of British residents of Poland were also protected.
So we will keep 841,000 Polish people (fine by me, I love the Poles, they are a great lot!) and in return 41,000 Brits can continue to live in Poland. Seems like a fair deal to me, but I hope this is not representative of how May intends to negotiate with the EU because if it is we will really, really need the intervention of the Courts and Parliament to protect us from ourselves. Can you imagine. May, "We will agree to lower our Tariff on your goods to 0.41% as long as you don't charge us more than 8.41% on yours Mr Tusk."
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Perrypower1 the only person doing any running down is you ,with your refusal to accept the Democratic outcome of the referendum ,at one time people like yourself would buy a tin of spray paint and scroll you thoughts on a wall ,now anarchist get on the internet and try to convince the people that voted Out in a Democratic referendum that they voted wrong. This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2016.
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** EDITED - Against forum rules - inciting **
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 29/11/2016.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 11/30/2016 10:57:00 AM.
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Windtalker
Cameron went with a proposal that would discriminate non uk citizens and in particular eu citizrns which is unacceptable to anyone
He failed obviously and well done eu his proposal was wrong and quite frankly a disgrace
UK govt need to fix the problem of over generous benefits to all and stop topping up the wage bill with tax payers money
I am sure had he implemented this ridiculous discrimination the courts would have been full with legal and moral challenges
You just don't get it the problem will remain until the uk changes its own rules
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 the UK benefits system was put in place to cater for the population of the UK why should we change it ,what you need to change is the citezens of the EU drawing off a system that they have not paid in to this will be my last post on this subject . This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2016.
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Please stop slagging one another off.
If you cannot accept a persons argument without posting abuse you would be better off not posting at all.
One of the good things about these boards is that you do not know the experiences, background or even ethnicity of the other posters and can say what you like without fitting your comments to the audience and therefore expect a wide range of responses which may or may not affect the way you think (if you are open to the argument). But please keep it civil.
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There were over 160,000 poles who were unable to return to Poland at the end of the war. (Many of those that did return were never heard off again). The 160,000 have almost completely integrated into our society.
I expect we can mange it again.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 29/11/2016.
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Most of the surveys I have read indicate the maximum number of EU migrants that have come to the UK and registered for NI in the last decade is 3 million. About one third have left as employment contracts ended. In a country of 65 million an extra 2 million spread around the nation is sustainable. I just dont believe that it causes the problems you state.
Micky
You have obviously not been to a UK A&E recently, full because people can't get a GP appointment.
Not tried to get a five year old in your local school.
Not tried to get your name on the list of a Housing Association or find suitable housing.
Travelled on a train or road in the rush hour in the South East, or around any other major city?
How do you know one third have left as employment contracts finish, even the Border agency don't keep track, they enter with jobs or educational courses but are not counted out of the country and could be anywhere in or out of the system.
Building homes, providing schools and GPs and hospital beds in a short space of time even for 2 mill is NO mean feat.
Dont trivialise what is seen as a major concern by many of the 17.4 mill who voted.
Many are certainly NOT racist but they are and have been concerned about uncontrolled immigration ever since Tony Blair opened the floodgates, problem is no one listened until June, when all our votes counted for a change.
The EU economy is stagnant and struggling, stands to reason EU citizens want to come to UK with high employment.
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Windtalker
Most no uk citizens who come to the uk pay into the system
How many uk citizens get benefits and health care without paying a penny in
The uk population is more than uk citizens
Hugh_man
The lack of infrastructure is the fault of the uk as has been said many times
Investment as the economy and population grows has simply not happened bad planning and bad use of funds -wait a minute the uk spends it on in work benefits to aid the economy
How is this going to be fixed on brexit
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Building homes, providing schools and GPs and hospital beds in a short space of time even for 2 mill is NO mean feat
Especially when you have people like me who do not want our quality of life reduced by building on the green belt.
The lack of infrastructure is the fault of the uk as has been said many times
The lack of infrastructure is a direct consequence of allowing too many people to settle in a country that is already the most overcrowded in Europe.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 29/11/2016.
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Well stop the benefits and health car stop population growth stop economic growth and no infrastructure expansion save money
You can't have it all ways something has to give but don't blame it on the eu or eu citizens
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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It does not matter how we got here. It is not blame we are seeking but cause and effect.
1. We are locked into an undemocratic, corrupt beaurocracy.
Solutions: a) Reform it. b) Leave.
We have utterly failed to do a) and there is no prospect of doing it in future - the answer is b).
2. We are unable to control our borders, fisheries and many other facets that as a nation we should be able to do.
Solutions: a) Reform the EU b) Leave.
Conclusion the same as in 1.
3. Our economy is being held back by an unresponsive protectionist trading block.
Solutions: a) Reform it b) Leave
I think you know the answer by now.
Many people seem to have decided that economic growth is dependant on more and more immigration. This sort of growth is unsustainable and will lead to a country that is not fit to live in. Growth and prosperity need to be gained by increased efficiency and technical advance.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 29/11/2016.
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Sorry tteedd I have to disagree with you on all points
1 stay and influence reform eu is not undemocratic another myth
2 the uk already has control of borders as has been discussed many times
3 the uk economy is reliant on the eu and it's citizens who provide much needed resources and skills
Better together going alone the uk will sadly fail and even though the uk needs reform the uk will never reform
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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It's a myth that the EU is undemocratic is it?
So you agree with moving parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month at a cost of 150mill euros a time because they say so.
How can the UK control its borders when EU citizens and those who have recently become EU citizens have freedom of movement throughout the EU to seek work not available in their homeland?
What resources? The U.K. Pays money in before it gets any back.
Nobody is denying or stopping skills coming to the UK IF required but exactly how many skilled EU citizens do we need driving for DHL, Yodel or Uber?
We may have low unemployment but there are still many not working.
Are we all criticising be UK for its more generous welfare than others in an attempt to reduce poverty among its citizens and those necessary to fill certain roles?
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The rubbish that comes out. UK the most overcrowded in Europe? Tell that to the Belgians and the Dutch and the other 8 countries in the EU which are more densely populated.
Parliament to Strasbourg costing "150 mill a time"? Sounds like the 350 mil a week bus because that's the annual cost, not the monthly cost as is being intimated.
Still, the daydream beleavers can carry on thinking everything will be OK.
Any chance of waiting to see what actually happens instead of the garbage being spouted by all and sundry? No, I thought not.
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The rubbish that comes out. UK the most overcrowded in Europe? Tell that to the Belgians and the Dutch and the other 8 countries in the EU which are more densely populated.
Lies dammed lies and stastics.
England overtook Holland in 2008. England has many parts that are unpopulated (and unpopulateable) so the populated parts have a much greater density than Holland.
You no doubt took the figures for the whole of the UK which include the unpopulated parts of the Scottish highlands. To make any sort of comparison you have to compare the populated areas. You cannot build London on the top of Ben Nevis.
If you break it down into any reasonable size area then the SE of England is the most populated part of Europe.
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** EDITED **
If there is a job to be done that cannot or will not be done by the present UK population, then allowing EU immigrants to take up those positions is a no-brainer, this way the job gets done and no-one loses.
If there is a job to be done that can be done by the present UK population, then that job should be offered to the present UK population first. This way there is no negative impact on housing, health care,transport systems etc.
If a EU immigrant takes up a job that can be performed by a member of the UK population then there are 'hidden cost to this' ie,
If a job is taken up by a EU immigrant then there is one less UK person in work, so the UK person needs to be looked after by the state in order for the EU immigrant to be in employment.
What if there was a' EU situations vacant website' that invited those from the EU to apply for jobs that cannot or will not be taken up by the present UK population?.
Surely the sensible thing for all is to have the 'dog wagging the tail' rather than the 'tail wagging the dog'?.
I don't believe that it is ok have an 'open door policy' whereas we have to cope with what comes our way, surely we should 'open the door' to those that are needed.
Saying it is the UK's fault because of generous 'handouts' is not on, the 'handouts' were put in place before the EU opened the door to 'uncontrolled immigration' and they were based on the standard of living of a UK population.
The UK 'standard of living' was built up by generations of hard working UK residents for the benefit of UK residents'.
Now saying it is the UK's fault for 'generous benefits' or 'inadequate infrastructure' does not make it right to then invite the rest of the EU to turn this into a burden for all.
Controlled immigration is the only way, we take what we need - not what we are given.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 12/1/2016 10:49:00 AM.
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Hugh wrote:
You have obviously not been to a UK A&E recently, full because people can't get a GP appointment.
Not tried to get a five year old in your local school.
Not tried to get your name on the list of a Housing Association or find suitable housing.
Travelled on a train or road in the rush hour in the South East, or around any other major city?
I left the UK 40 years ago. I can remember all the factors in your list Hugh as being exactly the same then. There is nothing new under the sun. Your perception that the free movement of people is to blame for these things is completely misguided.
I visit the UK regularly and see the same country that I left. The roads are still choked, personal space at a premium and it still rains most of the time..
I used to work in central London and travelled from the leafy suburbs daily. It was a nightmare. I recall it often took two weeks to get a GP appointment and as for social housing it was impossible which is why everyone loaded themselves up with mortgage debt.
I suggest the current generation suffering difficulties looks for something to blame and thinks the last generation had it better. They did not. It was exactly the same except some of my generation blamed the West Indians, the miners and Asians. Remember the BNP the fore runner of UKIP.
When I read some of these posts it very clear some of the attitudes and reasons Brexit won a majority was the facts were distorted. It’s clear who is to blame for that. The right wing media, lying ambitious politicians and dissatisfaction from ordinary people with their lives.
I realise life is tough for most people but it was the same for my generation and worse for my parents and grandparents. You blame the EU for all the structural ills of the nation. Then as a result make such a ghastly mistake as leaving the source of the created wealth in Britain in the last forty years. It is a total tragedy.
He who calls the piper will pay for the tune. Britain will roll back to the seventies and believe me it’s not going to be pretty.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 30/11/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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