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20 Jan 2017 12:07:

ads- This appears as an egotistical ideological mantra that pays scant regard to the citizens it was meant to serve I'm afraid.

Well that remains a minority view among 500 million European peoples. Until a majority agrees with you the status quo will remain. Democracy working as it should. Democracy works both ways. The winners should respect the opposite view not try to ridicule it.

tteedd-I don’t think the EU is undemocratic. I do however accept it's elite heads should be elected by ALL the people they serve and not just the leaders of government and parliament. However it's not a deal breaker for me. The European Parliament is a democratic institution and oversees all legislation. In truth 'the hierarchy' as you call it has little real power on their own The council of ministers is where the deals are made with input from national government.

You should be more concerned with the happenings in Washington not Brussels. A potential dictator in power does not bode well for the world.



Thread: BREXIT

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20 Jan 2017 10:52:

I am a fully legal European thank you very much. I will remain so until my mournful day. It is possible to consider yourself a European first and British by birth even after Brexit.

ads. Britain entered the EU club as you call it by treaty approved and voted upon by it's parliament and the peoples representatives. I presume they will leave it in the same way.

The consequences of membership including the negatives were considered acceptable once for all the advantages it brought the nation. That has never actually changed. Perhaps the EU should have moved it’s position to accommodate dissent but in doing so would weaken what it stands for and lose credibility as an institution.

It's the UK voter perception that changed and I respect that. I believe its wrong but being a democrat first and foremost the majority must prevail to wherever that takes them. Respecting the opposition opinion but not agreeing with its message is the democrat’s mantra.

I have never argued against the referendum result or its legitimism. That is a misunderstanding of my purpose. I argue against the principal of leaving the EU not the right of the people to vote for it. 

Britain is a divided nation on this subject and remainers will not give up. In the future Eurosceptics will be replaced by Euro-enthusiastics. (forgive the pun). Remember the majority of MP’s in the parliament support the EU.

Britain in future will now have to compete in a globalised economy dominated by Trumps protectionism and China aggressive method of doing business.

If people truly believed they would be financially better off outside the EU because of labour market competition and free movement they aint seen nothing yet.

 

 



Thread: BREXIT

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19 Jan 2017 15:37:

ads Is it beyond the remit of EU bureaucrats to comprehend this undeniable reality of citizen discontent?

Again I'm not necessarily supporting that view only pointing out the réal politique. Britain allowed Eurosceptic attitudes to grow instead of addressing the root causes of discontent. Lack of investment in public housing, social care and the NHS. Governments of all colours did not address the benefits of EU membership or try harder to reach a consensus to remove the negatives.

The result is all to plain to read on this thread. I am very glad I no longer consider myself British.



Thread: BREXIT

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19 Jan 2017 12:53:

If you imagine for one moment the USA will sign a trade deal more favorable to the UK and not to the US then read Trumps book 'The Art of the Deal'.

Britain has threatened the EU with creating an Island tax haven if they dont get their own way in the negotiations. Can anyone imagine the remainiong EU nations allowing their companies and capital to relocate to the UK without responding in some way? Would Britain’s new American ally, which has threatened its own companies if they send their profits off shore, allow May to transform her country into some kind of aircraft carrier for tax optimisation?

The leaders of the 27 states of the EU have more to lose if they agree a favorable deal with Britain. It would reinforce their own Eurosceptic populations and increase political pressure on themselves.

If the 27 member parliaments fail to ratify any agreement in the two year period after artricle 50 then it's a cliff edge Brexit with all that means. Britain will be out in the cold. They will then be faced with desparately passing round the hat to any nation willing to sign a trade deal with them.

In the Trump view of world business that is the the worst possible of all positions. 



Thread: BREXIT

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19 Jan 2017 09:01:

One mans punishment is another mans justice. Punishment is a prerogative word. In politics it’s realities that matter. As Richard Nixon so eloquently said once ‘when you have someone by the balls their hearts and minds follow’.

Tadd if you read the article it included an an account of a commons comittee meeting in which those views were expressed. The Guardian 'gutter press' hardly.



Thread: BREXIT

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