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How can. the SNP claim they want a independent Scotland and yet still be want to be governed by the EU how is that possible.
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Nicola wants independence from Bank of England monetary policy to tie herself to the ECB monetary policy.
Is she totally mad?
Independent from London Having a say in your affairs so that bureaucrats in Brussels determine both monetary and economic policy.
Is it me, but where's the advantage in that?
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Desmond
WTO rules will automatically be our default trading position IF no deal is agreed with the EU.
Can you really see German car manufactures agreeing to charge the UK more for cars, potentially damaging their sales.
Corporate EU actually exerts far more power than Brussels and its lame politicians.
After all it was European motor manufacturers who persuaded the EU members to originally offer incentives to buyers of diesel cars, say no more.
The EEC was originally set up to aid trade as WTO did not exist as such 40 odd years ago.
Thankfully the world has moved on to permit trade between all nations and tariffs have tumbled.
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Continental Europe is in long term economic decline. Presently, the EU28 countries amount to only 19 percent of world Gross Domestic Product (GDP) -- the most common measurement of economic strength. Meanwhile the Commonwealth is only slightly behind on 16 percent.
More importantly, the Commonwealth has a population of over 2 billion people, 4 times the population of the EU! In the age of containerisation and cheap sea trade, this presents an enormous and largely unrealised market for British business.
If Britain has to choose between Europe and the Commonwealth, the best long-term economic choice is clearly the Commonwealth.
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The UK could probably sign more trade deals with non-EU countries when it leaves, but there are two caveats. First, those deals aren’t easy to agree while maintaining important protections such as a public health system such as the National Health Service, and public education, which are areas of keen liberalization for many other countries. Second, as seen in the Trans-Pacific Partnership discussions, even if the European Union has nothing to do with such treaties, they can take a very long time to negotiate, and they remain controversial among Brexit supporters.
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God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time
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I'm not sure that a three year old article carries much weight Jarvi. Please in future can you respect copyright and attribute your posts when they are cut and pastes.
Also it would be useful if you are going to use historic data that you provide an update so we can judge for ourselves the veracity of the information provided.
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Perrypower
There is no copyright on the article I posted. I checked. If you need up to date information I suggest you check yourself. 
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Desmond
The world has trade deals.
That was what WTO does for every nation.
Free trade deals between nations may take longer and yes the EU may have to accept genetically modified wheat and hormone injected beef if it signed up to TTIP.
But it does not force the consumer to buy such products.
Trade is after all, customer or consumer led.
After Brexit however, the U.K. Will continue to trade with EVERY nation under WTO rules if necessary which do NOT nowadays include massive tariffs.
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You may be correct. God bless you my son.
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God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time
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Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.
Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
The Brexit Secretary rubbished the Treasury’s pre-referendum forecasts of an economic crash if Britain left the EU with no fresh trade agreement.
But, asked by the chairman of the Brexit select committee, if a new assessment had been carried out, Mr Davis replied: “Under my time, no.”
The admission came despite Mr Davis ordering Cabinet colleagues to prepare for what is widely seen as the growing prospect of negotiations with EU leaders breaking down.
It drew sharp criticism from Labour MP Pat McFadden, who alleged: “Without an assessment, you have mortgaged the country’s economic future to a soundbite.”
But Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”
And he appeared to downgrade the Government’s pledge that the UK will enjoy the “same economic benefits” outside the EU, telling the MPs: “I was expressing an ambition.”
On the impact of crashing out with no deal, he said: “It’s not as frightening as some people think – but it’s not as simple as some people think.”
During the evidence session, with the committee shadowing his Department for Exiting the European Union, Mr Davis also:
* Said it was “probably right” that holidaying Britons will lose EHIC cards, which provide free or subsidized healthcare across the EU, but added: “I have not looked at that one.”
* Admitted he did not know the implications of leaving with no deal on the transfer of personal data, which is crucial issue for the booming tech industry.
* Acknowledged UK producers of dairy and meat would face tariffs of up to 40 per cent under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules – “the numbers in agriculture are high”.
The Independent 15 March
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 15/03/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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** EDITED - offensive **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/15/2017 11:45:00 PM.
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Glad you all enjoyed your conversation about cheese and mustard.
By all means discuss the importance of French, English, Dutch, Spanish and even German cheese, or mustard, if you must, but NOT in this thread. Remember if any new readers were to enter the thread amidst a conversation about cheddar and dijon they might just think that this thread has gone adrift, as we did....
So please remember what thread you are positng in and please stay on topic.
Finally, please treat all other Europeans with respect no matter which country they are from, even comments in jest can still be offensive.
thanks
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EOS Moderators
> See our Forum Rules | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use
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Dear Mods
Thanks fir your comments, I do sincerely hope no offensive postings would or should be allowed on here.
For my part, I was trying to question this point highlighted.
* Acknowledged UK producers of dairy and meat would face tariffs of up to 40 per cent under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules – “the numbers in agriculture are high”.
What is the relevance or need to highlight when exports of UK dairy and meat products are generally insignificant as we currently don't produce enough for our own needs.
Economics of trade suggest that if home produced products such as cheddar for instance becomes cheaper than imported Gouda, for example, or similar comparisons then consumers may well switch their demand which would boost the UKs trade balance. So not that much of a negative.
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Back to the subject then The Dutch people have voted against populism and racism and have indicated their continued support for the European project. I believe the French will do the same in May.
It is clear Brexit will not cause a domino process in Europe. It’s the start of isolationism for the British based solely on a plebiscite with a small majority.
In view of Scotland and Northern Irelands clear wish to remain in the EU along with 48% of the electorate a general election should be called before Brexit takes place on that one single issue.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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"based solely on a plebiscite with a small majority"...
Not according to this analysis Mickeyfinn
"
In short, it seems that many a SNP supporter in particular voted to Remain in the EU even though they were not convinced that leaving would be harmful for the economy and even though they anticipated that immigration would fall if Brexit were to happen. Meanwhile, of course, the fact that rather fewer people in Scotland than in England and Wales thought that leaving the EU would be beneficial in the first place may well itself, in part at least, be the product of the SNP’s support for ‘independence in Europe’.
So, many of the social divisions about Brexit and some of the key arguments about what it might mean helped shape voters’ decisions in Scotland in much the same way as they did in England and Wales. Scotland voted to Remain even though those forces were in play just as they did on the other side of the border. However, in a country where UKIP has little resonance and where a pro-European SNP has come to dominate the political landscape, views that elsewhere disinclined many a voter to back Remain had less impact north of the border.
However, in voting to Remain some of those voters at least were seemingly telling us more about what they thought about ‘independence in Europe’ than they were about the merits of the UK’s membership of the European Union. Little wonder, then, that the UK-wide decision in favour of Brexit has served to stimulate afresh the debate about a second independence referendum north of the border.
By Professor John Curtice, senior fellow at The UK in a Changing Europe.
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I’m not sure how the writer arrived at those conclusions. Did he question every voter? You would need to do that in order to discover what was in their minds when they put a cross on the ballot paper.
If you did the same to the UK based ‘outers’ I'm guessing you might be surprised by their conscious purpose too. Trying to second guess voter intention is a mugs game. Often the answers are very banal.
I was actually against Scottish independence in the last plebiscite. Believing the UK was stronger together as a nation inside the European Union. Now I have sympathy for the nationalists who see Scotland’s future as remaining part of a union with Europe not England. I suspect many Scots now feel the same.
It may take some time to achieve but so was devolution from Westminster.
It’s interesting to note Mrs May has not ruled out a second referendum on Scottish independence merely saying wait until the EU negotiations have been completed. So why then rule out a referendum on the terms of Brexit?
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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According to this analysis re The great British trade off
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-great-british-trade-off/
…..”the primary effect of trade liberalisation is on the distribution of income between winners and losers. This is a trade-off. It is economists’ job to highlight this trade-off, perhaps identify the winners and losers and even attempt to measure the costs and benefits.
But it is for the politicians to decide how to choose policy given the trade-off. Decisions in regard to the issues arising from trade liberalisation should rest with politicians and policy makers, after being informed of the trade-offs by economists. For economists to ignore the trade-offs or pretend that they do not exist undermines their credibility and legitimacy in public debate.
In conclusion, the talk now should not be in favour of protectionism, but rather should be a call for an open political discussion informed by real economic analysis, rather than ideology-laden commentaries.”
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Perhaps why therefore that economic analysis should be reviewed with an open mind and from as wide a perspective as possible, to gather the best outcome for the UK rather than stick purely to political mantra?
Time for credible COLLECTIVE thought and thorough independent economic analysis to achieve the best outcome for the UK going forward? A less politically biased and independent analysis is required.
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Some positive news.
Toyota have announced this morning that they are investing a further amount of a quarter billion in their plants in the UK.
The Far East seem to have faith in our future.
Industry and trade will be key to the future of our economy. Politics will only play the part of spending money and finding divides.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Mickey
Total number of voters in Netherlands approx 18mill similar number who voted out in U.K.
I also don't think it's a resounding success when the PM holds 30 of 150 seats and actually lost a few.
The PMs recent stance has been fairly controversial and according to some bowing to pressure by being firm on Turkey and immigration.
The Dutch can only hope that a message has been received and hopefully heard and paths need altering.
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