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If the vote is to leave the UK, how credible would David Cameron be in carrying out negotiations that would be in the interests of the UK?
Surely we don't send the guy and the team in to negotiate that have been trashing the UK and our abilities for the last few months?
The sensible thing to me would seem to be, to let the guy's who have been advocating 'out' do the negotiating and bring back all the things they promised.
If DC was to do the negotiating surely he could negotiate a 'crap deal' and then turn round and say 'well, I told you so but you wouldn't listen'.
Not too sure this is an issue, I am sure that if the 'out vote' wins then DC will be yesterday's news and free to go and build his air raid shelter in preparation.
This message was last edited by BigAl2015 on 08/06/2016.
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If this is only advisory as suggested then why has Cameron suggested that he would recocognise the democratic rights of voters ( and likewise for the exit camp.)
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Bigal
The same could be said for approx 76% of mp's who want to remain in the eu
The outers have promised nothing in way of a plan on what they want or to negotiate only speculation and guesswork how could they negotiate something they don't know
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Could MPs block an EU exit if Britain votes for it?
The answer is that technically MPs could block an EU exit - but it would be seen as political suicide to go against the will of the people as expressed in a referendum. The referendum result is not legally binding - Parliament still has to pass the laws that will get Britain out of the 28 nation bloc, starting with the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.
At least they have the power to stop 51% of a 50% turnout winning the day
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If in the very unlikely event of the lower house blocking the will of the people, doesn't the upper house simply over rule them, causing the queen to dissolve parliament, and force a general election?
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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If in the very unlikely event of the lower house blocking the will of the people, doesn't the upper house simply over rule them, causing the queen to dissolve parliament, and force a general election?
Possibly, but then all parties will probably be standing on a remain ticket apart from the tory's who would have to decide their stance. If there was a free vote in the House of Commons today there would be a huge majority in favor of staying
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1. As I said before, I'm sure Cameron want's to be seen as a 'successful PM'. He would do everything he could to negociate a good deal (I'm not sure however there is a lot to negociate). The leading 'outers' still support him as leader post referendum. He is on a winner whatever he achieves. If all turns out well, he takes the credit. If it is a crock of S..., then he says 'I told you so'.
2. In a democracy, the will of the people must stand. But again as I have said previously I would not be surprised by a second referendum in 1 or 2 years time. (We do not have the exit terms we wanted, but look at what we have achieved if we stay in - now be good people and vote 'yes' this time).
This message was last edited by tteedd on 08/06/2016.
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Many Tory 'inners' have 'outer' constituency associations. I would expect de-selections should the incumbents go against the will of the electorate.
Does anyone know how the result will be published? Is it by constituency as in a general election with results through the night? Or is the whole lot being collated into a national vote?
Is there a whole new can of worms to consider? Inners who's constituents vote out. Outers whose constituents vote in.
Labour inners who look like they have been blown away by possible UKIPpers?
The aftermath may have all sorts of interesting repercussions.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 08/06/2016.
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If there was a free vote in the House of Commons today there would be a huge majority in favor of staying
This should tell the exiters a lot
The UK's elected MP's are in favour on staying - I wonder why
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Actually it would tell the exiters that a few hundred disagree with the wishes of many millions, this is why decisions such as this should not be decided in the House of Commons.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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VOTING REGISTRATION EXTENDED UNTIL MIDNIGHT THURSDAY
Another abuse of the voting system.
After the referendum, whatever the result there needs to be an investigation.
It was supposed to be free and fair with both sides spending a fixed amount. In the event we have the government and perhaps the EU spending vast sums of our money to persuade us to vote to stay in.
Postal voting is already an abuse of democracy and extending deadlines if you consider it to be in your favour is another.
We need to see one man one (secret vote) with rules being stuck to, not bent, for all elections.
We do not need the EU rules on bananas but we should not bend our rules if we do not wish to look like a banana republic.
In a democracy we have a contract. We get one free and fair vote and in return we respect the will of the majority. If we do not have a free and fair voting system why should anyone accept the result?
This message was last edited by tteedd on 08/06/2016.
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What we need is a turnout approaching the level of the Scots Independence referendum 84,6% !! then no one can have any complaint about the outcome.
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Funny how exiters are now saying the voice of a few hundred MP's shouldn't override the wishes of toiling masses and that decisions like Brexit should be left to the people. And yet the key thrust ( if there is one) of the Exit argument is that EU decisions override the Westminster Parliament. Surely its illogical to argue that Parliament is sovereign on one hand and then say it isn't on the other? Surely some mistake?
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Scollins
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So scollins,
You don't believe in the legitimacy of the referendum. tough for you, we've got one, I wouldn't trust many MP's to oil the spring on a pogo stick, remember the expenses scandel. So no mistake, just a promise in the tory election manifesto that has been honoured, what can possibly be wrong with that?
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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BBC - All you need to know
counts will get under way when polls close at 22:00 GMT Thursday, 23 June at 382 local centres around the UK. These local results will be declared as the counts are completed before being collated at 12 regional centres, which will also declare the totals for each side. There will be a rolling total so the time at which one side reaches the point of being mathematically unbeatable depends on how quickly the vote are counted and how close the results are running. It is a safe bet that from 4am onwards there should be pretty clear picture of which way the vote is going. A chief counting officer will announce the overall result at Manchester Town Hall.
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Demos - the people. The root of the word democratic.
Since the referendom is truly the word of the people it is more democratic than the vote of their representitives.
As it is clearly not possible to make every decision by referendom and most people do not have the time to research every issue, we vote for our representitives who have a clear connection to the people they represent.
Some people (usually members of minor political parties) argue in favour of proportional representation. This is clearly a lot less democratic as it breaks the link between the voter and his representative. If our representative fails us we need to be at liberty to reject him or her. Parties are just groups of MP's. More MP's who are independant or represent their constituents rather than toeing the party line would be good for democracy. Parties should not chose your representitive, You should. In the EU they have gone the whole hog and done away with the elected representitve in the executive (the commission) altogether.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 08/06/2016.
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There are 28 commissioners each member state puts forward a nomination for a commsioner who is then vetted by MEP'S
No different to many other govt nominations for senior posts including the uk govt cabinet who are appointed by the PM who himself was appointed by members of his party NOT the electorate
Yes cabinet ministers and the PM are elected as MP'S
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The UK's elected MP's are in favour on staying - I wonder why
Could it be that they have friends, relatives, associates or even look forward themselves to enjoying plum tax-free posts on international bodies including the EU?
These being a step above quangos where the perks are not as good and you have to pay tax.
What ever happend to Mr Cameron's ' Bonfire of Quangos'? Has he gone native?
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The only reason we are having this referendum and I mean the ONLY reason is an attempt by DC to stop the infighting within the Tory party once and for all - big gamble and terrible timing with the Syrian refugee crisis. As I keep saying I do hope the result is really decisive, a result that the country can unite behind and go forward - somehow I don't think this will be the case
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VOTING REGISTRATION EXTENDED UNTIL MIDNIGHT THURSDAY
Another abuse of the voting system.
Sorry don't understand this comment
Surely allowing all those that are entitled to vote the means to do it is fair and reasonable? Just because they left it late and then unable to because of a website overload is no reason to deny them the vote - is it? Would imagine it effects both inners and outers
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