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Ads, as far as I am aware the UK government does apply a sort of points system for non EU migrants to legally settle in the UK. It seems to depend on age, qualification for certain jobs and levels of income. Of course there are also student visas. There is also a level of income necessary for a UK national who wishes to bring a partner into the UK, currently around £18500 pa. Around 20years ago our son (British) and his wife (American) wanted to return to the UK. Neither had jobs to come to, so we had to provide details of our income and mortgage and guarantee that our daughter-in-law wouldn't be a drain on the public purse. I think that it may be harder now as our son would have had to return on his own and get a job, earning enough to bring his wife over.
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And that BigAl, "NO-ONE knows what things will look like should the UK vote 'out'."
is precisely why holding this referendum is so dangerous. We know what the 'in vote' looks like. It is a bit better deal than we currently have. We have no idea what we will have eventually if we vote "out" but it will take more than two years to get there.
So how does the rest of the world see it. Well, they are dumping our currency as fast as they can on the possibility we have lost our minds
Still there are some funny bits about this. I nearly peed myself when I read someone saying the EU needs us more than we need them. Bwahahaha. You guys do crack me up. Bwahahahahahaha.
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If we left the EU we would be a free independant democracy. Pretty much what we were before 1972.
Just what we had been working towards since the end of serfdom and Magna Carta in the middle ages.
We elect politicians to manage the country, not to give away our freedoms. The best thing about a referendum is that it gives the decision to the electorate. The worst thing about it is that it is open to manipulation.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 27/02/2016.
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Is there any evidence that 'the rest of the world is dumping sterling as fast as they can' ?
No. The pound has increased in value throughout the day,
Does the EU need us more than we need them?
If you mean does the EU need a pain in the arse that is always trying to change the rules but never succeeding? Then I guess the answer is No. But if you mean does the EU need our trade more than we need theirs then the answer is yes. The ballance of trade is massively in the EU's favour and has been that way since we joined. It was in our favour before we joined. But it is a nonsense to suggest that there would be any great change in the amount of trade if we left. We would hope that the balance would improve, no-one can say for certain but the evidence from when we went in would suggest that it would.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 27/02/2016.
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The evidence is that we are at seven year lows against the dollar and traded at 1.3856 today. The pound has lost 10% against the dollar this year and five percent this week. That is called a sell off or dumping the currency. It was 1.44 against the euro at end of 2015 and below 1.27 now or down 15% in three months. That is a bloodbath for the pound.
As trade agreements fall and need to be re-negotiated trade between the EU and the U.K.will be hindered not helped.
Businesses won't wait around for the UK to get its act together. We will simply be ignored unless we want to pay up with a pound that will go to parity with the euro. Jag and Land Rover will move their operations abroad. That is just the start.
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I agree and began this thread originally with a Goldman Sachs prediction of a minimum 20% devaluation for Sterling if the UK vote to leave the EU. Parity with the Euro is inevitable. That is what happened in 1992 when the UK left the ERM. the precursor for the Euro.
It is almost impossible to discuss this subject and its likely effects without being accused of scaremongering. I have followed financial markets for years and understand what a massive economic shock Brexit will be. That also happens to be the opinion of the IMF and almost all financial institutions around the world.
It will also impact the Spanish property market severely.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I agree with you Mickyfinn but don't have the same pessimissiom about the Spanish Property market. Here is an interesting link regarding that. https://news.kyero.com/2016/02/the-impact-of-brexit/21086
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The world's 5th largest economy has spoken, it has questions to ask and fears to be addressed, what a cheek.. We've seen our currency under attack on many previous occasions, the FTSE100 was about to collapse, but closed last week at 6096, I got 115 Euros to the Pound at this time last year, in the good old days, just wait for the bounce when things start to settle down.The G20 group has voiced it's fears, I believe that they will kick some sense into the seemingly intansigent EU leadership.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Perry. That article wrote: EU membership has never been a barrier to property ownership in Spain, as demonstrated by the very active Chinese market in Madrid.
It's not the lack of EU membership that will impact on British buyers; it is the potential weakness of Sterling. I'm not sure Keyro carries much weight with their opinions. Their business is selling property.
When Sterling crashed out of the ERM it took almost 5 years to recover it's fair value. The uncertainty and economic shock a Brexit will cause is unpredictable. Financial markets hate uncertainty the most.
It will take a minimum of two years to even start meaningful negotiations to exit. It will not be a priority for the EU leadership. During that time markets will tank and investment will leave the UK. Only when Britain has proved to the markets that it can prosper outside the EU will fair values return.
All this turmoil to what end? To satisfy the prejudices of a section of the Tory party and a minority of working people who believe their jobs and healthcare are at risk because of immigration.
Do the Spanish hold those same prejudices towards the millions of British,, German, Dutch and Irish who populate the south of their country? I am a migrant in Europe and have never felt any resentment. My local health center is usually populated by retired Brits with only a few Spanish waiting to see the doctors. No one to my knowledge moans or groans about foreigners or how long it takes to get treatment. Why then do the British? I can’t believe there are more EU migrants in Britain than Spain.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn
Yes, there is some resentment against foreigners in some parts of Spain, the Costas included. If you read some of the comments on the "guiris" in Spanish press or social media sites you would know of this. The main points of contention are the increase in house prices and the cost to their national health service. It would seem many are unaware the national government of the expat pays the health costs either under EHIC or S1.
And there are definitely more EU citizens in UK than there are in Spain. Some 2.3 million according the ONS which is about the same as UK citizens living in the entire EU until you see that those 2.3 million in UK are workers, not including spouses and children. The total figure is more like 3.1 million.
Just to put the record straight on both sides.
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the majority of EU citizens that go to UK do so to work (or study) and do the jobs that the lazy benefit scrouning brits won't do
Yes they qualify for in work benefits so what - they will still qualify for these after 4 years so what will be the difference just a small stay of execution for the welfare state
If an exit and we ban all immigartion, who will do the jobs - the lazy benefit scrounging brits won't
This vote is NOT about immigartion EU or none EU
Non EU immigartion - again the majority who end up with asylum or legal are in UK and willing to work
This really showing how racist the British are and known across the globe for this and arrogance
This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 28/02/2016.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I guess bobaol part of the problem in assessing the true numbers of foreigners in Spain is the fact most of them don't register as fiscal residents. I have lived in France and Spain for many,many years and although I have felt considerable resentment from the people in France. Never have I had that feeling from Spanish people. Perhaps they are too polite.
Maybe they don't feel their jobs are at risk because most foreigners are retired and have their own financial resources..
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 28/02/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Little mention has been made of how to make the European Commission accountable and how to tackle the lobbying groups, especially of concern when you learn that well over 90% of meetings between the Commission's department for financial regulation are not covered by transparency rules and lobbyists are with the corporate sector.
According to Alter-Eu (Alter-Eu.org) , "whether it be TTIP, austerity, internet data privacy, banking, climate change, or almost any other issue, lobbyists are working hard in Brussels and in our capital cities to influence policies and laws. And too many lobbyists are working for corporate interests, rather than the public interest. "
Isn't it time to be bringing these issues to the fore?
P.S. A new newspaper launches tomorrow called The New Day, intended to be balanced without telling the reader what to think. Might be worth reviewing perhaps in terms of factual content from both sides of the debate?
This message was last edited by ads on 28/02/2016.
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Mickyfinn
Having workedin farnced myself I found the French just as racist as the Brits and arrogant but not as arraogant as Brits
My experience of Spain has shown a much greater tolerance and acceptance of foreigners.
Many of my Spanish friends comments about Brits relate to the heavy drinking, drunkeness, disrespestful and arrogant nature of the Brits who come to spain to live or as tourists, have also had some interesting points about British parenting skills and low family values
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Regarding the pound up or down bit.
Quote from JK Galbraith.
"Financial forecasting only exists to make astrology look respectable"
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Imho respect for one another's cultures whilst also a willingness to realistically denounce abhorrent behaviour or abuse from either side, rather than perpetuate divisive stereotypes, is critical to establishing harmony, advance necessary reforms and lead towards a more civilised society.
This message was last edited by ads on 28/02/2016.
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According to the B B C news the so called democracy that is running the UK have instructed all Government departments not to give any information to M Ps that are in favor of a No vote .so I am definitely voting OUT OUT OUT.
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You have been out from the start windtalker not influenced by recent events. I also doubt anything written by us on here will influence anyone. However its interesting to read why posters hold the views they do.
I think there is a lot of apathy and complacancy about this subject among ordinary folks. The 'don't knows' in the polls could possibly sway the vote. We should never underestimate the role of the uninformed.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Hence the need for a trusted source of independent factual information upon which to make an educated judgement, Mickeyfinn.
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Still a big issue is the 4 UK indepenedant state votes
England majority vote to be leave EU
Scotland majority vote to stay in EU
Wales majority vote to stay in EU
NI majority vote to stay in EU
Result UK is out of EU
next UK breaks up
It could just as easy be the other way round with England voting to stay in and the rest vote out or perm any result from all 4
Whatever happens the English vote will decide
Wonder what individual country polls are saying
Which ever way it goes - is the only true solution 1 vote per UK nation to decide on the future of the UK and in the event of a draw then a 2nd round must be had with more debate or will the UK break up as we know it
It does not seem fair to me that England, because of numbers, dictate the outcome of in or out
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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