Rough justice yet again!

Re "Responsibility of the administration of justice for undue delays. "

Maria, please could you address my questions (dated 23 Sep 2009 22:31, see below)  regarding this legal tip, as I'm still confused.

Many thanks.

Could you please ennunciate a number of  clear questions for me to answer. I will be very please to clarify.

Best,

Maria

Certainly Maria, here's the questions.

How realistic is this scenario, and has anyone ever succeeded in regaining all their monies via this legal route? If so under what circumstances did they gain success?

Doesn't the purchaser require a precedent to have been set,  so how can we know that this will work? How much additional cost would be incurred in this process?

Does the purchaser regain the original court judgement's ruling to include interests, costs and the like, or would this just be a means of gaining a small nominal amount of compensation?

" The claim deadline expires one year after the date the damaging event occurred or caused its negative effects. " so what is deemed a damaging event/negative effect? Is it court delays that impact the return of monies via the inability to issue an enforcement order, or court delays that impact the return of monies due to a developer going into administration in the interim etc etc? Could you give examples demonstrating where you see that this might benefit those suffering the consequences of court delays.

Couldn't the courts just claim force majeure by suggesting that they were overloaded and were not provided with the necessary resources from government? Would this be their means of evading compensation?

Hi everybody,been reading all the goobledegook on this Forum and feel you need a degree in Law to understand it1Can anybody answer a few simple questions onAifos or point me to a Forum were i may get the answers.

What will happen with all the nearly finished developments such as the Hippodomo,will the banks finish them to cut their losses?

If you dont register as a creditor does that mean that you dont have a claim on the property you have paid your depositson.

Surely as you can see with the disgusting state of the Spanish Law system you have no chance of getting monies out of Aifos with all their Directors in prison, paying  further fees to currupt Lawyers to achieve nothing is just a waste of time.

It would be appeciated if some of you would be law students could answer these simple questions and try and get back to the thread of helping Aifos sufferers.

john newton  

 John,

This thread is not just about victims of Aifos. It is about anyone who has suffered the fate of the Spanish Judicial system!

 John,

This thread is not just about victims of Aifos. It is about anyone who has suffered the fate of the Spanish Judicial system!

John,

How else can we understand the existing Spanish Judicial system except by asking questions? Ignorance is certainly not bliss and I hope that all in similar legal predicaments to ourselves can learn from this thread.

By the way, have you expressed your anger and concerns about the Spanish Judicial System and your specific details to the EU Minister? The more that do so the better.

ADS: Thanks for making it easier for me: some answers in bold blue below:

How realistic is this scenario, and has anyone ever succeeded in regaining all their monies via this legal route? If so under what circumstances did they gain success? I have no personal experience in this procedure but any liability procedure against the Admnistration provided an effective damage and a cause-effect relationship proved generally success.

Doesn't the purchaser require a precedent to have been set,  so how can we know that this will work? How much additional cost would be incurred in this process? Force and importance of precedents in Spain are not equivalent to your system´s: the Commun Law system. Of course case Law is advisable to be added to the lawsuit and there must be enough case law regarding this. Regarding costs, as always, depends on the amount claimed and the scale of the Bar association is applied ( Lawyers can increase fees if they decide so).  If a god number of people come together, the Bar association´s rules allow members to do reduced fees and hopefully costs can be finally imposed  to the Administration by the Judge.

Does the purchaser regain the original court judgement's ruling to include interests, costs and the like, or would this just be a means of gaining a small nominal amount of compensation? The claim is for the full damage, including interests and associated costs, proved to be effective and related to the action/omission of the Administration of Justice.

" The claim deadline expires one year after the date the damaging event occurred or caused its negative effects. " so what is deemed a damaging event/negative effect?   Is it court delays that impact the return of monies via the inability to issue an enforcement order, or court delays that impact the return of monies due to a developer going into administration in the interim etc etc? Yes, it can be.Could you give examples demonstrating where you see that this might benefit those suffering the consequences of court delays.

Examples are  specific Case Law, precedents... why do not you give me.... one week... and I will make a post for the blog with full appraisal and examples. Is that OK?

Couldn't the courts just claim force majeure by suggesting that they were overloaded and were not provided with the necessary resources from government? This argument is not sufficient. Would this be their means of evading compensation?

Newtonchicken: Again some answers in bold blue below:

Hi everybody,been reading all the goobledegook on this Forum and feel you need a degree in Law to understand it1Can anybody answer a few simple questions onAifos or point me to a Forum were i may get the answers.

Thanks Maria.

Re "Examples are  specific Case Law, precedents... why do not you give me.... one week... and I will make a post for the blog with full appraisal and examples. Is that OK? "

That would be good, but please can you keep it simple so that we can understand it. Legal talk is often difficult to decipher!

I think many people will be very concerned however to have to spend yet more monies on something that has arisen solely as a failure of the Spanish legal system. But presumably until outside intervention (EU) makes the justice system accountable, this route would be the only way of ultimately recovering monies (last resort?), if the court delays continue to inflict injustices like Goodstich and John's etc.

My worry is that what incentive is there for lawyers to complete their original legal task effectively, if there is a possibility of gaining even more monies from the client via this last resort legal route. It's adding even more opportunites for corruption, where the lawyer wants to gain the maximum monies from the client. So the court delays effectively assist their ultimate financial gain. Where is the incentive for the lawyers to then push for change to a legal system that is open to abuse???? Isn't it any wonder that there are some very angry (and upset) clients out there as things stand right now .

Hi Ads and Maria,

thanks for the info.PLease note i am not being sarcastic just passing a comment ,it is nice to see that people are trying to make progress.Ads can you give me details to write to the EU minister and i will ,i will also posy it up on the Hippodromo site thanks again for the info.Keep up the good work Maria your comments certainly helped.

john 

EU Minister:

Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Glenys Kinnock who replaced Caroline Flint in July 2009)

House of Lords

London SW1A OAA

Plus, Suzie's petition:

www.spanishpropertyscandalpetition.co.uk/2.html

Thank you Maria as always good straight forward info  you are a diamond .MM

Ok. One week now to prepare that report for my EOS people!

Maria

Good morning all

I made a mistake with my dates I realised when I got a message from my lawyer on Friday. I stated the courts delayed our case by 12 months and then the sentence by 5 months, this is wrong. My lawyer reminded me that our case was admitted by the court in April 2007, so they had not 12 months but over two years!! to pass sentence before Aifos went in to administration. If sentence had been passed in a reasonable time frame, (say a year!) our embargo could have been put in to action, an Aifos property actioned and funds from the auction returned to us during the following year, matching the sum we were awarded in court, long before Aifos went in to administration, so rendering our embargo void.

Hearing this is like another turn of the knife, and to make matters worse, my lawyer says 'though we have a case against the justice system, it's unlikely to work, as they would probably blame workload for delay, and we would therefore be taking on the Spanish government themselves to try and get a fair result. So though we are in the right, once again the system has cheated us, and it seems I have nowhere or nobody to put this right.

So, despite winning our case, it is clear without any shred of doubt I Have been cheated by the Spanish government. I feel the unreasonable delay without compensation is nothing but corruption by the government by any other name. Unless they decide to pay back those they have cheated by unreasonable delay, what other conclusion can I reach? 

Goodstich, Maria posted a different conclusion to the same question see below

"Couldn't the courts just claim force majeure by suggesting that they were overloaded and were not provided with the necessary resources from government? This argument is not sufficient. Would this be their means of evading compensation? "

So who is right?

Hi Goodstich you must be soooo angry ! I agree with everything you say .What I  think we must do is to take our complaints to the top of the tree but how ? The Spanish government has ignored the findings of the Auken report and don't seem even slightly phased by the threat of financial punishment by the EU  .Nothing has changed and if anything people are being treated worse .What now ? I really don't know how we can be heard no one is listening  and no one seems to care  MM

Dear All,

well there it is in black and white though highlighted in red....

"If sentence had been passed in a reasonable time frame, (say a year!)"

an English business man totally defeated, totally confused, been through the wringer, shredded in spirit, so shattered by it all that he now thinks that one year to deliver a "ten second" judgement is reasonable.

Is asylum the next step??????????

how can a system that treats known terrorists with every "human right care" imaginable treat the honest law abiding citizen in this manner, who did we elect to bring this about, is it being done in our name??????

or is it all down to the unelected lawyers who control our lives???????????

are lawyers the most evil people in the world???????

should the "profession" and their "union" be done away with??????

would any alternative be better, perhaps even a computer??????????

how many millions of trillions would we save???????

just a thought before I cash in.

Regards

Norman 

"The Spanish government has ignored the findings of the Auken report and don't seem even slightly phased by the threat of financial punishment by the EU "

If  a compensation scheme was established by the EU following the Auken report then this would be the way to achieve return of monies.......... so in effect the monies would be redirected to those abused by this fiasco. The power would have been taken away from the Spanish Govt  in that regard by enforced compensation. It's the only way, if the Spanish Govt won't respond to this justice maladministration. We should be pushing for this to happen via those MEP's who have supported the Auken Report.

ads

indeed this would be the only fair way if the Spanish government continue to cheated people out of justice through unreasonable delay.  I don't doubt Maria is right with her comment, but in reality we know to well that law and implementation of law are far apart in Spain. My case is a perfect example. When I started my claim against OVP and Aifos, several people said ''you will waste your time and money, even though you are in the right, you will not get justice''.  I couldn't accept this and still don't, but I do now see that opinion as justified and not just 'giving in', that's how bad the situation is for those cheated. I won my case but have still been cheated, law or no law?

MAGICMEG

yes indeed, there is nothing right about the fact our case was delayed for so long when the courts and the government knew full well the situation of Aifos, and how many they had cheated.

normansands

I agree with you 'a year' to reach a decision about obvious theft from known crooks is indeed not reasonable from a UK point of view, but we are talking about Spain where things do move much slower and I accept that to a point, so giving them a year stops any comments like 'this is Spain, you must accept it takes longer.