Rough justice yet again!

johnmfranci5

yes, an example certainly should be made. There is no doubt in this case, and their is enough evidence to jail him a thousand times over. Will justice be done though?.  Like you, I have very little confidence in the sentence being the right one.

Roughly how many people are caught up in Aifos saga?

Roughly how many people are caught up in Aifos saga?

If memory serves me correct I believe there at least 6000 creditors, (that list will include suppliers as well as investors, banks, tax man etc)

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe there ar least 1000 off plan investors who gave money as

as deposit and never had anything built.

If someone can paste exact figures that would be helpful.

For that matter, roughly how many people are caught up in the court delay scandal that robs folk of their rightful return of monies having won their first instance judgements?

ads

yes, I wonder?.  A hell of a lot of us I would think.  That's the even uglier side to this situation. Not only are thousands cheated by developers/agents etc, but then they are cheated by the very system in place to grant justice!!   The standard excuse was always that the courts couldn't cope due to the huge backlog of cases against agents/developers/lawyers, so those of us cheated paid yet again despite winning our cases in court, and continue to do so for their   ''mistakes''.......and that's being kind!!

Just how many Aifos cheated will probably never be known?  For instance on our development, the majority completed despite some massive breaches of contracts, very late delivery, no LFO, no BG etc,.  They just wanted a quiet life and were often advised to complete by their agents/lawyers, partly through greed of the agents/lawyers, and partly because they were warned that despite the breaches of contract, they could not rely on the justice system to act in their favour.

goodstich

I sometimes say it is better to make the best of a bad deal (if at all possible) than to continue with years of expensive legal battles and no guarenteed outcome etc

My question to you  is are those that completed not in some ways better off at least they have something tangible and maybe they can get on enjoying life and living the dream?

But that said I would never advise anyone to buy property in Spain as even if you get the legalities right then the tax man will screw you on valuation for either payment of transfer tax on purchase or capital gains tax on sale.

English people are constantly caught between a rock and a hard place - pay up or engage expensive legal advisers - there is no fair treatment or customer charter.

And so the uncivilised abuse continues Goodstich/Faro until those responsible are made truly accountable. It's no solution to the inherent problem so long as there is no "customer charter". The irony is that getting on and enjoying life and living the dream as you put it Faro, depends on it being a dream and not a botched up nightmare.

It now looks as though the alternative route for justice via group action against the Banks will also be hampered by court delays unless something major happens to alleviate the situation.

Is a solution that difficult to identify? There should be swift enforceable EU laws in place to ensure that where delays of this nature have seriously affected the enforcement of justice within that country, that realistic compensation should be made available to act as a disincentive (taken from EU monies due to that country). Likewise for other forms of abuse that are ruining Spain's reputation to the detriment of all.

Make the government accountable to provide a justice system that works. That is surely a basic right for all EU citizens in this day and age isn't it? And people wonder why continual critical comments are directed at Spain. Clean up the abusive system and watch Spain flourish.

and could the British Consulate not do more to help/lobby? Instead they sit there charging abusive fees to support their lavish lifestyle. Many of their fees are 7 times higher than those of other consulates!

All I can say Spain for many is a dream until one actually tries to live it and then it becomes a living nightmare and rather than prolong ones life will probably lead to early death by disapointment or stress or of having at retirement age been robbed of all ones life savings. If one is young then take it on the chin and learn from the experience but if at retirement age then everything is lost.

It seems no matter what you do in Spain someone will rip you off and that includes estate agents, developers, banks, lawyers, tax authorities and ....... and they do this will the full force of the law behind them and that's laws that fully protect them and not you.

I could harp on about the EU but that would be another total waste of time.

All we can do is keep warning people of the risks of buying property in Spain .....

Sadlo Faro I think you sum up the whole situation perfectly.

I now genuinly believe there is not the slighest chance of any of us getting recompense and justice.

I sincerlely hope I am proved wrong in years to come.

As you say at least if you are young enough you can move on.

The people who are retired and have lost most if not all of their live savings are the ones who have suffered the most.

At far as I am concerned I do not intend to waste another penny on Spain in any capacity.

I doubt I shall ever set foot on Spanish soil again. 

"All we can do is keep warning people of the risks of buying property in Spain ..... "

And thereby lies a possible route to gaining reform do you suppose?

I agree completely where you identify problems within the EU but it's for the likes of all of us to be proactive in our efforts to strive for reform. Politicians rely on apathy to get their self interest motions passed so we have no-one but ourselves to blame if we just sit by and let it happen. It's all too easy to point the finger but do little to resolve the situation.

People power is a totally underestimated tool in this day and age of electronic communication, and we need an organised but fair voice to name and shame, to educate and influence those best suited to carry forward the message. We need a high profile campaign, but to do so I suspect would entail a similar high profile and effective figurehead (celebrity or well respected person to head the campaign?).

Just a thought but could the Spanish Property Scandal Petition step up a level and pull together all of those who are rightly frustrated by the ineffectiveness and financial abuse that exists within the EU and muster a much wider audience to effect change?

Faro you are so right to keep the stark message alive but  I would be interested to hear of sound solutions rather than a solution that allows the abuse to continue.

ads

yes, we must make this a big deal.  Sadly, those who are content with their lot if not the whole property market mess, don't seem to realise that mass action would make those in power sit up and listen, which would benifit everyone. The old  ''i'm alright jack', let's stick our heads in the sand'  attitude still rules I feel with far to many?

And so you identify another problem that to be divisive is no solution. We should all be working together proactively on this.

Hi Guys,  has anybody set up a face  book or twitter account which would encourage those cheated in Spain to register their dismay and disbelief at the Spanish legal system? That is one sure way of getting a little publicity about the whole judicial system over here and it will be there for all the world to see....  Hasta pronto mi amigos.  KP

I like the campaign idea.

But of course there are many on this and other forums who dislike negativity and would prefer we keep quite and not scare people off.

But I'm all for honesty and the truth!

I am no internet genius and don't have a face book or twitter account but I know it would be amazing how many people would sign up to something like this to air their views, then the press would get behind it. I bet there are thousands upon thousands of people who have bought property in Spain who have got problems.There were a reported 4,000 in the Almanzora Valley alone and yes it does seem to get pushed under the carpet because no body wants to stir the hornets nest, but to be honest what other solutions are there?

This government keeps making noises as though they are going to sort it but never do and they treat people like idiots. I have friends who have been waiting 8 years to get their property legalised, there health is not good at the moment as they are elderly and should one of them become fatally ill what then? 

I think the time has come to let the whole world know what the true situation is in Spain and all the 'I'm alright Jack lads' are not going to like it as it will effect their property prices but so what? but the other side to the coin is that they will also be able to see the truth behind the headlines.There is nothing to lose now as all avenues seem to end up in one place:

Calle Sin Salida

I can see I will have some catching upto do in a weeks time!

Yes joining facebook is a good idea I am always being asked to join one group or another.  It is certainly worth a try.

Probably a lot of people that do not know about EOS and have lost money in Spain would respond.

Good Luck Pat 

Yes, and what a fantastic way for us all to thank Justin for all his input over the years championing lots of causes we should be 100,000 stong on EOS before I log on again.

Had to go and watch the footie before I let the computer have a rest for a week.Come on England......

Please PM me details of the facebook and/or twitter and I will have to bite the bullet and sign up when I get back.

I haven't got in to the facebook type thing yet, but my daughter spends hours on it, so I'll have a look.  Sounds like a good idea to get everyone we can to tell there story on it and raise awareness.

Hi all sounds like a plan could not do any harm will get my daughter to have a look tonight pill post results