Rough justice yet again!

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30 Jul 2009 16:09 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Hello Georgia

Norman clearly has problems and thats very sad and as I have said this topic has no argument to it

Sadly I feel that only handful of people on the forums know of plights like Goodstich44 and many like him.

I also cant agree that everthing has got to be crystal clear now

It will take more than that to have corruption and the legal sytem in place to avoid many more like him having to go through another hell

Different company name.Different marketing and the £99.00 trips will be back again only with a different message.

I love Spain and I love my property in Spain. Would I trust the system again ? Errrr Nope.

 





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30 Jul 2009 16:22 by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1842 posts Send private message

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 Hi Chimps,

I doubt we will ever see the £99.00 inspection trip days again, the old boys may well try to sneak back in but under a different guise but the general public have chewed that bitter pill and is still stuck in the throat of many.

Good old fashioned market and Estate agency is what is needed now......no boom,no bust and transparency all  round.

I have to think things have changed or else i would not leave the house in the morning and in general if you do all the associated searches etc then things are so much better than they ever were.

I am one of the fortunate ones that have never suffered at the hands of the system,it is not just knowing the system but knowing how the system actually works that has kept myself and clients safe in the past.

I am currently studying for my exams in;

Civil Law

Registral Law

Commercial law

Fiscal Law

Urban Real Estate Law

Administrative Law.

It has been quite an eye opener so far but if i did not have some faith that we are moving on i would have wasted an awful lot of time and money.............

PS Does anyone know where i can get my hands on a laser tape?



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30 Jul 2009 17:04 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

georgia said

''it is not just knowing the system but knowing how the system actually works that has kept myself and clients safe in the past.''

all very true, and no doubt the most important thing about buying, but I feel the justice system has simply let far to many people down. That really has to change, otherwise knowing the system could mean don't risk buying?, because if anything should go wrong you might well not get justice?  Not  a message anyone wants but  true far to often. Until this improves, and the system is a bit more trustworthy as in the UK, the rent option looks a far safer bet to me. It gives breathing space to learn all about the good and bad.  Hopefully all the laws you are learning will be implemented more often in future?


 



This message was last edited by goodstich44 on 30/07/2009.



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30 Jul 2009 17:04 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Hi Georgia

Now thats funny you should ask ?

Only last week at a local hotel " PROPERTY WORLD  "   TURKEY  . OFF PLAN .GUARANTEED RENTALS. GROWTH EXPECTED 25% PER YEAR. OFF PLAN .INVESTMENT LIKE NO OTHER!!!!!!!!

YOU GUESSED IT  ????    £99.00 If you booked on the night and £50 Marks and Spencers Vouchures for just turning up.Grabbed them of course and free cups of coffee

Great to see you are studying in Law .  Till your qualified and can sort the b-------ds out I will give Goodstich44 all the help I can.

THE LAW IS THE ISSUE HERE.  THE LAW IN SPAIN . WHY IS THE LAW NOT BEING ENFORCED. WHY ARE THOSE LIKE GOODSTICH 44 BEING CONNED NOW.





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30 Jul 2009 18:16 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

Georgia says he/she is studying the law.

Chimps says the law is everything.

Goodstich says it is nothing because it is ignored by the system and not applied by the judges.

Georgia says it is a good time to buy and always has been if you are careful and guided by someone who knows the system.

Chimps says he has trusted the system once but would not again.

Georgia and Chinps say that pointing out Goodstich's true position is somehow an attack of some kind upon him.

Pointing out that he is much better off than many who have followed him and been cheated on higher priced property is likewise an attack.

Pointing out that he is indeed much better off than many who completed the purchase of property and have now lost it is yet another attack upon him.
 

 

Regards

Norman



_______________________
N. Sands



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30 Jul 2009 18:34 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

30 Jul 2009 18:50 by coombsey Star rating. 14 posts Send private message

After checking out this and other sites in the last week or so for discussion on the Aifos situation I was surprised to find nothing very much written.  It's only after doing a bit of searching that I stumbled across this thread.  My point is if we want to gather group momentum and publicise this issue we need to have a much greater profile.  I have been a site user for a few years now and it took me a week to find this thread.  How we do this I don't know - maybe a specific page dedicated to Aifos, maybe a discussion thread linked to Suzannes website?  Maybe a website dedicated solely to our fight for justice?  Thoughts anyone?

I, like Goodstich and others on this thread am a victim of Aifos.  In 2004 we purchased two apartments on the Puerto Golf Las Colinas development, were told around two years for the build but after two years nothing.  We then discovered no building licence was in place etc. i'm sure you know the story.  So in 2007 we took legal action against them and after two and a half years have a final sentence against Aifos for return of funds, compensation, interest and ethical damages.  Needless to say, like others we were delighted that justice was going to be served.  But no, our judgement could not be enforced quickly enough, we began enforcing the judgement on 14th May, pursuing the provisional embargo that was already in place.  As far as I understand we now have a full embargo but even this means nothing if Aifos go into bankruptcy so I have to admit to being a little confused when Goodstitchf eels that he would be in a better position if he had an embargo?  I may have misunderstood the legal process but I think you would be in a better position if you had a full and final sentence.  The embargo would make no difference as it still has to be enforced and there would be insufficient time to do so.  I stand to be corrected here by the way, it's only how I have been led to understand my own legal standing that draws me to this assumption not any legal expertise!

On the discussion between Normsands and Goodstitch I would like to make one point.  Normsands mentions that he is pleased that his children would not have to inherit the negative equity that may or may not be in place at the time of inheritance.  Again I am no legal expert but I believe I am right in saying that you cannot inherit a debt???  And with a mortgaged property you would simply hand back the keys to the lender???  Can anyone confirm whether or not I am correct? 

I totally agree with the general consensus on here that we cannot just let this happen, we have to fight for what is right and fair.  Suzanne has made a tremendous start to this fight and can only benefit from the support of the rest of us who are suffering at the hands of Aifos.  I would be happy to be contacted by anyone here wishing to pursue this further.

 


 



This message was last edited by coombsey on 30/07/2009.



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30 Jul 2009 21:21 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Hi coombsey

just to clarify,

yes, if the sentence had not been delayed for 5-6 months minimum from our hearing last April we would have been in a better position (well in theory at least)

yes, as you say we still need full and final sentence in our favour for the embargo to be of any use. Should get that this September.

yes, we have a full court embargo in place, (depending on the final sentence)  but  now Aifos are in bankruptcy proceedings it's worthless anyway

yes, as merely creditors we are highly unlikely to end up with anything.

You would think that the latest development about those at the top of Aifos being on trial for criminal activity would mean something to the victims (us) of that criminal activity?  Along with our own evidence, what more do the courts want before they will say, ''yes Aifos have clearly cheated you and should pay you back with your embargo'd asset before they are allowed to go bust!  To much common sense there though I guess?





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30 Jul 2009 21:37 by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

 Again I am no legal expert but I believe I am right in saying that you cannot inherit a debt??? 

You cannot inherit a debt but the deceased's estate has to clear all outstanding debts.





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30 Jul 2009 23:41 by MAGICMEG Star rating in Scotland. 546 posts Send private message

I think you can inherit a debt , in at least that the estate can which would amount to the same thing .ie the same outcome for beneficiaries .



_______________________

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     but I am willing to accept that sometimes (although not very often ) I can be  wrong !




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31 Jul 2009 01:41 by patman Star rating in Chester and Los Alca.... 84 posts Send private message

patman´s avatar

I think the time has come to ignore normans comments. When he first started to contribute I thought he made some valid points at a level worth discussing. he has now degenerated into wringing every last bit of argument out of every last sentence and word, so much so that his points have become meaningless. So I reiterate, ignore norman from here on in. I'm not even convinced that he has a genuine greviance against a developer in Spain. For all I know he is just playing a game with you guys. One last thing for norman: I will not respond to your response if you make one...

 



This message was last edited by patman on 31/07/2009.

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31 Jul 2009 09:09 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

patman

yes, i've sadly come to that conclusion.  This fight against a company who's bosses now face jail sentences for fraud has cost my life savings, 7 years of stress and worry, and a hell of a lot of wasted time. We all have a damned good reason to fight our corner, and opinions on some issues are bound to differ, but we really need to all pull in the same direction on the big issue of  justice. The last thing we need is ''my loss is worse than your loss'' arguments or  ''you might be better off now because of negative equity'' speculation, between those who have all in common the fact we been cheated by unregulated crooks, or by the justice system, or in my case and many others, both!

thanks for understanding.





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31 Jul 2009 10:34 by fultond Star rating in Haywards Heath & Tor.... 242 posts Send private message

Hey you Aifos victims, don't for one minute think you have exclusivity on this extortion. Somebody please spare a thought for the Palmera/Mirador  (and any other) victims. We are fighting for the same cause, and while the unique cases must be fought through the courts separately we would like to put our weight behind any general actions.

Dave



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31 Jul 2009 10:55 by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Magicmeg, you wrote:  

I think you can inherit a debt , in at least that the estate can which would amount to the same thing .ie the same outcome for beneficiaries .

What happens if the debt exceeds the deceased,s estate?  That debt is not inherited, it ceases upon death.

I'm not meaning to go off topic. Just to clarify a point   

 


 



This message was last edited by Tish on 31/07/2009.



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31 Jul 2009 11:47 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

fultond

yes of course. I'm really sorry for anyone caught up in similar situations. Anyone who's been the victim of unregulated crooks, or the justice system should be heard.





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31 Jul 2009 12:54 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

valid points suddenly evaporate, I don't think so!

Goodstich TOO YOUNG to be claiming lost LIFE SAVINGS from eight years ago - that's valid.

E90,000 apartment with E27,000 deposit that's cheap - that's valid.

100% market growth slipped through his fingers - that's valid

Corruption not exclusive to goodstich's Aifos experience - that's valid.

Contribution from hungry estate agent complete with sales pitch and free advertising - definitely not valid.

All in the same boat, but no room for Norman, his facts are too argumentative - not valid, only silly people argue against the facts.

This thread too restrictive - that's valid.

I have on this thread and others gently taken Justin to task for not fighting his corner when he was shafted by the system but don't know how to elevate this to higher prominence on the forum, however since posting here I have continually been criticised by the sun crazed dreamers for any hint of criticism of their dream, so don't expect it to be easy. They even have the power here to get your posts deleted and even whole threads.  In this of course they are supported by the said hungry agents. But as an individual cheated, I agree that it is necessary.

The agents are not the only ones hungry here, Spain is full of hungry lawyers too, any attempt to streamline the breach of contract production line with low fees will be difficult too, but should be pursued if at all possible, especially if they can be induced to spend their slack time on "no win no fee" actions.

Progress and good luck to everyone, even the "sillies".

Regards

Norman

 

 



_______________________
N. Sands



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31 Jul 2009 13:54 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

 
 
 
Goodstich44
Coming from a marketing background I am used to people that talk the talk and some that walk the walk.
You clearly are the later.
To get your message to those that just may start to listen you will need two main ingredients .
One Motivation .Two Motivation
You appear to have a remarkable lady who has set the wheels in motion with a selfless attitude that puts most into insignificance 
She clearly has the most utmost respect from people within the forums.
You have the respect also for your dog determination to fight for what’s right and no one can fault that.
Many well being will advise of what course of action to take and some will want to use this vehicle for self motivated reasons as you are seeing .My loss is bigger than your loss, everyone feel sorry for me etc.
Changes come from motivation with one goal. You may have lost money but definitely not your pride and reputation You don’t care what people think as long as your message keeps banging the drum. That’s motivation/no one will change my views that the values and laws are everything
Well while someone has just posted that is my view I  have to say it is pretty near the top of the way I approach life
Use this now to add momentum to Suzanne as with the respect you both have and with the support you can generate just maybe some may come out behind the safety rails.
You have other posters that don’t want to be left out of the Aifos situation. Well meaning and get all to join as long as they appreciate that its bigger than one development/developer.
This hopefully is for owners,potential future owners and those that have been abused by the law and corruption.
Start to get people to listen and when they do some will want to steal the thunder and will try to undermined you  That’s happening with one poster at the moment
As I have said this is not about individual arguments .
There is one argument and one fight.
I will always promote the good in Spain but 100% behind this evil corruption and the laws that must be implemented.
Situations like yours and hundreds must be addressed by Spain itself or the powers above .
 




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31 Jul 2009 14:14 by 1962 Star rating in Iznalloz. 182 posts Send private message

Hi Chimps/goodstitch,

I am not in either of your positions, but I wish to add my support to Suzannes petition, I tried once but it seemed to be just for people who had a story to tell, can I sign up even though I don't have a problem, because I think everybody whether in dire straits or not should lend their support to stop all this lawlessness.   Re NormanSands can he not for a moment stop hammering away at people and realise that the purpose of this website is to offer help and information (and a lot of humour also) instead of preaching brimstone and fire constantly.

Kathy

 



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Kathy




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31 Jul 2009 14:31 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

 

There is another supporter for you Goodstich44 and Suzanne.

1 message and 1 goal. All on the same side fighting one cause

Kathy. I may be wrong but support from whoever and whatever would be very welcome

My situation may be different to Goodstich44 but my resolve to support change is very much the same

Have seen to many hurt and ruined both mentally and financially. Its has to stop.

There are two people that with the support just and I say just might start making a splash that could turn into a wave.


 



This message was last edited by Chimps on 31/07/2009.



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31 Jul 2009 16:56 by coombsey Star rating. 14 posts Send private message

I received notification from my lawyers today that the courts have published a statement that confirms that Aifos have gone into administration.  This does not necessarily mean they will go into bankruptcy although judging from press reports of the amount of debt they are in they will find it difficult to avoid.  I am also being asked to pay in excess of 1000 Euros for my lawyer to fight my case on the creditors list - are other peoples lawyers making the same requests?

Perhaps I am looking at it too simplistically but I paid a large legal fee to get my money back from Aifos and I haven't got it.  My lawyers are continuing with the same cause of getting my money back but now want more money.  Perhaps I am just being too sceptical because of what I have been through but I would be interested to hear from anyone who could explain why a further fee is fair and right.

 





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