Rough justice yet again!

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10 Aug 2009 15:45 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Seems that some are taking individual frustrations out on each other and not to the main issue.
Norman. With respect. You are quick at coming forward condemning others like Goodstich44 decisions and reasoning in buying property.
Seems you do post lots of very reasonable postings but often with a sting in the tail.
Others may understand better if they knew your situation
I have explained (like others) to the reasons we feel the blame on corruption lies.
You are an experienced poster however. You say you are a pensioner with limited funds.
I have many friends that also now have limited funds due to being screwed and for no other reason than the trust they put in the law of Spain.
I have observed this thread with great interest and no matter what the reason.
 The law and the lawyers must be the centre point of why corruption was in the main allowed reach the levels they have. They were the ones that were trusted/paid/employed to look after the interests of their clients.
Now we all know that many buyers are not innocent buyers here and greed on their part forms reasons why some have lost.
 Regardless of sales agents who were in the main Brits
Regardless of mortgage broker who in many cases help the buyer fiddle the mortgage.
This is about decent people who were the vast majority who were lied to and screwed by the very people they entrusted.  Professional people who acted on their clients behalf to ensure the law they are representing is upheld
Unless the future has a lawyer they can trust or a system where the law brings them to account then no one will trust Spain
Corruption can only flourish if no one is there to stop it

 





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10 Aug 2009 16:09 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Chimps

how many times do we have to ram this bloody obvious message home?? 

Smiley's only paragraph in cap's is

''HOWEVER I HAVE NOW COME TO REALISE IN THE LAST FEW DAYS THAT THERE WERE SOME THAT WERE EXTREMELY NAIVE AND POSSIBLY STUPID WHEN BEING LET LOOSE IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY WITH MONEY BURNING A HOLE IN THEIR POCKET.

.......well yes there were, so what?,  that's obvious to all, and there always will be some like that. .  Lets try and move forward and get justice for the vast majority who were decent bright people screwed by dishonest liars, and a justice system that didn't and still doesn't regulate against them. Some are at last being punished, but how many more have gone bust while still owing millions to victems they have robbed?.  Where is the justice for their victims?. That is what needs changing, and ubtil it does, as chimps says, ''how many would trust Spain''........just the stupid perhaps?





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10 Aug 2009 16:36 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear Chimps and all,

I think those cheated are generally in agreement and I am pleased that some such as goodstich are now behind my long term plea that the main culprit was the lawyer, it just could not have happened without them and they knew what they were doing. They are an absolute disgrace.

However you and others may have been fooled by the "hungry traders" please don't be fooled by Smiley or any of the others posting on the forum.

Smiley knows very well that we have no knowledge of him or his business and there has never been any contact between us not even a pm.

Yet he chooses to assume guilt as the mortgage broker mentioned. Why???

Could it be to give himself an immense 1k word plug of recommendation, or even yet get more free advertising to boost his huge EOS superstar status????

He may not be the sharpest pencil in the box but he is certainly up there.

His only weakness seems to be a reluctance to buy anything in the universally accepted way - by specification, perhaps that is why he did not make his second million during the biggest property boom ever, that he was in the middle of complete with insider information. Who knows???

Regards

Norman


 



This message was last edited by normansands on 10/08/2009.

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10 Aug 2009 16:37 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

Chimps. I understand your point about taking frustrations out on each other.  I do not think it is meant to be like that but the many who have suffered  both monetary, physical and mentally find it harde to speak well of a country they feel has cheated them. Imagine when one loses everything and believe me I know a few of these.  As regards a system to help against fraud, I assure you we work every day against this. Our members that sought our advise are the lucky ones. The many that use the same expression "if only we had known of your earlier"  Earlier we did not exist only in my mind and plans since 98 only to have set  up just under two years ago.  But we assist with these cases and on most cases have mopped up the spilt milk succesfully. Yes there are people like me, like honest mortgage brokers, honest real estates and even honest lawyers. Dam all those that have done so much damage first to the affected in all these cases and secondly the damage against the rest of us. I understand Normansands attitude. I think we need to understand each others positions and stick together.



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10 Aug 2009 16:37 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

Chimps. I understand your point about taking frustrations out on each other.  I do not think it is meant to be like that but the many who have suffered  both monetary, physical and mentally find it harde to speak well of a country they feel has cheated them. Imagine when one loses everything and believe me I know a few of these.  As regards a system to help against fraud, I assure you we work every day against this. Our members that sought our advise are the lucky ones. The many that use the same expression "if only we had known of your earlier"  Earlier we did not exist only in my mind and plans since 98 only to have set  up just under two years ago.  But we assist with these cases and on most cases have mopped up the spilt milk succesfully. Yes there are people like me, like honest mortgage brokers, honest real estates and even honest lawyers. Dam all those that have done so much damage first to the affected in all these cases and secondly the damage against the rest of us. I understand Normansands attitude. I think we need to understand each others positions and stick together.



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Myra Cecilia. www.costaadvicebureau.com




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10 Aug 2009 17:31 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Goodstich44
Until they listen or are made to listen
Norman. No replypeople tha to what your situation is so that some may understand better.
Taking it out now on Smiley will do no one any good
Myra. 100% agree and its so easy to take it out on the wrong person/s (refer to Norman)
There are many,many  are so hurt both financially, personally and health wise.

So important as you say in keeping together on this matter.

Have a dig guys and gals but on issues regarding law justice and fight against corruption then we surely are on the same side





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10 Aug 2009 17:48 by MAGICMEG Star rating in Scotland. 546 posts Send private message

 I think we all know now  how it happened ,who was to blame and why .We all also now know  (all be it too late ) the part we played ourselves and the things we could have done differently to protect ourselves .The question now is how we fix it and prevent others from getting ripped of in the future( and they will ! )

We could all talk for ever about what has happened but we will still be no  further forward  .Actions speak louder than words

As for the crooks they know who the are and I hope they can sleep at night , I will leave justice in the hands of God as there is no chance of the Spanish system delivering it .

As for the Spanish property market I would much rather spend the money I have left  elsewhere as I am a great believer in that  " the best indicator of future behaviour is passed behaviour "  Therefor as the Dragons say  " I am out  "  MM



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10 Aug 2009 18:26 by ads Star rating. 2388 posts Send private message

I tend to conclude that the only time something will be done about these continuing legal injustices is probably when the Spanish government HAVE to take note.

If the publicity/media campaign could be ramped up even more to highlight the situation to all potential purchasers (varying countries not just the British) , highlighting not only the stories from those poor souls who put their trust in the Spanish legal system to date, but the actual injustices that are continuing right now as we speak in terms of major delays within the legal system, non recognition of valid Bank Guarantees, developer's tactics to extend legal delays even further, etc etc, only then can pressure be brought to bare on a legal system that appears close to collapse. How bad do things have to get before the politicians recognise that they are doing themselves no favours by their inaction. Change will have to come from within but it's sad to think that in the interim turning their back on the problems is only accentuating Spain's plight.

Get a grip politicians, lawyers, agents, mortgage providers,oh whoever you are, and get your act together because if you don't use this opportunity to sift out and address these major problems from within, you won't have many sufficiently comfortable to ever consider Spain as a safe longer term option for purchase. If politicians can turn a blind eye to injustices of this magnitude then no-one should feel safe. What will they do next? In this day and age the European Union should use their clout to eradicate such injustice, but wouldn't it be far better to come from within, from those who have to work within this environment, the Smileys, the Maria's of this world just as a couple of examples. Surely they would want to influence and establish a sound workable legal environment that encourages people to invest in Spain and not just accept the status quo.

Now's the time for the legitimate professionals to come together somehow enmasse and put their own pressure on the powers that be for change.

Maybe I'm naive to consider this as a possibility however.

OK rant over!





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10 Aug 2009 18:42 by MAGICMEG Star rating in Scotland. 546 posts Send private message

I wish there was some way of warning the Russians as they seem to be the next lot of mugs being targeted .



_______________________

  Nothing surprises me anymore  

     but I am willing to accept that sometimes (although not very often ) I can be  wrong !




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10 Aug 2009 18:44 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

ads

May I say. What an excellent rant it was too

Spot on as the gravy train will come to a halt some day and it may be sooner than some think.

Sadly to late for many poor souls but that just cant be the end.





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10 Aug 2009 20:32 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

ads

yes, i'm sure you are on the right lines. Unless those living and working in Spain turn around and say '' we have had enough'', then it's hard to see much changing soon with any conviction. In fact some think pressure from outside just makes Spain dig it's heels in even more, but what else can we do?  Why should we let the corrupt authorities and lack of regulation rob us?. As for you perhaps being naive?, what could be more naive than the Spanish government ignoring the common sense call for change and way to recovery that's staring them in the face?





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10 Aug 2009 20:51 by GuyT Star rating. 427 posts Send private message

Magicmeg posts: I wish there was some way of warning the Russians as they seem to be the next lot of mugs being targeted .

Russians might not take these shenanigans lying down like Brits. Were several Russians duped there would be sufficient in the pot to pay for a visit by someone. Such people can be easily found in Russia - or South Africa, for that matter. The colour of settlement is defintely red.





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11 Aug 2009 04:09 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2478 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Quite wrong Norman - I did buy during the growth period - all resales - all 100% legal with all correct licences. I am sorry but I dont know what is "the universally accepted way -  by specification". If you mean that I wasnt blown away by tales of fantasy highlighted by agents selling off plan you arre quite correct. If that is what you do mean, then I think you would find that on the coasts of Spain there were far more completed properties for sale than off plan properties. Maybe you couldnt find them but maybe you were talking to the wrong people and not doing enough research - maybe! I dont know I wasnt there and I may have misinterpreted your meaning. When I bought I used a lawyer appointed by me that I found myself, having spoken to a few, to establish who I thought was going to represent me correctly - all this before I moved to Spain. At one stage they had all made money but like everyone else they dont look quite as good now. While I am disappointed I dont moan about it as they were all my decision to buy (with one exception but thats another story). My decision and my responsibility.

As I am the most prolific mortgage broker on EOS and currently the only one on this thread I didnt assume any guilt at all but as other members have warned me that you are someone who likes to single out individuals on other forums in order to take a swipe and as all of a sudden because my point of view had some differences to your own and also had some balance to it I assumed the reference to mortgage brokers was a swipe at me - if not so then I apologise but it was someone else that pointed it out to me so obviously an easy mistake to make. It would be akin to me stating that you must have been one of those motivated by greed to invest off plan as my remarks seemed to goad you into comment. Neither one of us knows the others motivation and I would never comment on something like that without knowing fact. Because unlike you I dont speculate on what goes on in other peoples minds - I only state facts and the fact is that during the last 7 years experience here the resounding majority of off planners that we have spoken to were buying for personal gain. Once more I confirm there is nothing wrong with that. I merely ask for recognition that nobody forced anyone to part with their money.

We have all made purchases we have regretted in our lives. Some for more money and some for less. I think it outrageous that the UK government is not at least 50% to blame for the debacle over UK endowment policies post 1984 when they withdrew Life Assurance Premium tax relief. It was they that had encouraged the introduction of the endowment mortgage in the first place (in tandem with the insurance companies). The only policy holders that had a mis selling case were those that had supposed guarantees in writing - however the industry as a whole from government bodies through the insurance actuaries themselves must have known the problem was going to hit hard and there were internal reports to that effect - the ONLY way they could keep the concept competitive was to reduce the sum being invested to repay the mortgage. A bad buy - you bet!! While we can all blame governments, crooked lawyers, banks MORTGAGE BROKERS and the like we have to shoulder some of the responsibility ourselves. This is after all a free society and the last time I checked Europe was not a dictatorship.

There are plenty on EOS that do know me - ask Justin - he may even be bothered to direct you to members that have posted favourably about me. Frankly your view of me will always be blighted as my opinion differs to your own. As to my status on this forum - my shit is the same colour as anyone elses and makes me no better no worse than anyone else and believe you me that there are many people that will attest to my many weaknesses.

As to the Russians - they have been buying here for years. Thats exactly what White Whale was all about. Ordinary Russians as well as moneyed up gangsters and ex KGB and oil barons. I think they have probably (whether by luck or by judgement) hit the market at exactly the right time. Prices have probably bottomed out, developers are long of stock and thus discounting heavily, regulation has started to take shape and slowly started to be enforced. Whether they will be able to wash their money as effectively is another matter. Planning constraints are now being enforced and thankfully the authorities have now made it virtually a non starter for the off plan flipper to make a fast buck as tax now has to be paid on transfer of the contract - and the burden is now put on the developer to ensure that it is. So if there is no easy money to be made it will hopefully never return. The Russians have enough of a resident population here to turn to for guidance and not so many Brits eager to feed them a line. The Arabs are back as well would you believe - not the sheiks on their tankers but ordinary people that want a second home outside their country. All of which I would say augers well for Spain. I should add that for every negative story there is at least the equal number of positive stories that comes out of the UK. People that are showing both a paper profit and people that are showing a paper loss.

I guess it is simply the case that bad news is more interesting than good - hence why the newspapers dont want to put happy news on the front page and would far rather put all in a negative frame of mind from page 1.



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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11 Aug 2009 11:47 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Hello Smiley,

yet another rambling thousand word sales plug of self praise.

My goodness your hunger is relentless, is that the same as "prolific"?????

Given that you have made many thousands of these plugs and many of them will have led directly to paid business, don't you think you should help Justin out financially, after all if you had to buy such leads they would be expensive???.

For those of us who are not traders and speculators just simply holiday home buyers from a sales specification, your information is hardly relevant.

However you have made it clear why you hold us all in such disdain but can offer no help in our struggle for justice.

Chimps,

given that the traders have spelt out our faults so explicitly in open forum and hold us and our life-savings in such disregard, what do you imagine they are saying about us to their Spanish friends, lawyers and the like, in private????

you may not be offended by it but this old soldier begs to differ, I am afraid.

does that make my position clear????

Myra,

Lexland have made an approach suggesting they can get my deposit back through mediation with Interlaken, is this genuine and could you do the same???

Regards

Norman

 


 



This message was last edited by normansands on 11/08/2009.

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11 Aug 2009 14:19 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Hello Norman
Think it makes it clearer.
Well it seems that you are a pensioner that has paid and lost their deposit
That is indeed very sad. Was it something in hindsight something you could afford? Was it something that you considered an alternative pension or were you screwed by the lawyers, the legal system like Goodstich44 and others though no fault of their own.
No !Not offended by anything in Smiley’s post as in the main its all fact.(Perhaps one or two comments hit a nerve of some that are in denial)
This in no way takes the fact that lawyers/courts and the Spanish Government allows corruption to go on with devastating results for many.
I am sure smiley wouldn’t condone corruption anymore than the rest of us. Think he /She realises that it helps only the very few. He/ She arranged mortgages. May be for the likes of me.Thats what I paid them for and happy to do so if they get me the deal I want.
Think that perhaps he/she has allowed them self to get involved in argument that most appear to consider that they could never win  or even  to agree to disagree with you.
The one thing I feel that you are not taking into account is that we are all on the same side here.
 

 





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11 Aug 2009 16:08 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2478 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Chimps I agree with you wholeheartedly and it was the point of the very first post I made on this thread - had I known it would rub so much salt in what is clearly a very bitter and still open wound then I wouldnt have wasted my time. I merely tried to point out that the biggest perpetrators of exploiting the system here had been agents of British origin - while this is a corrupt country in many many respects it has never in my lifetime (I am in my early 50s) been a secret and I would suggest quite well publicised - even back to my grandparents buying their first Spanish home in Torremolinos in 1955 there has been no secret made of the right way the wrong way and the Spanish way and I would have thought most people with some common sense would tread with care - then again what do I know people bought in Bulgaria and Dubai where you cannot take personal ownership of your property.

In fact Norman I do help Justin out - so once again check your facts! If this is the degree of research you did when buying its little wonder you found yourself in the mire.

I have already told you that 75% of our business is derived from personal recommendation so this site makes little or no difference to us. We dont ask people to post commendations on here but they do (as for a couple of other brokers as well) and I grant you we will not ask them not to.

I dont hold anyone in disdain and while you clearly dont believe it, I am sympathetic to anyone that has been dealt a hard blow. There is nothing I loathe more than having to tell a potential client that the "information" they were given by the sales agent is a million miles from the truth. I want to know why people didnt check what they were being told when the only person they believed was the person making the sale - the very last person that was going to tell them the truth!

What I have simply tried to do is add some balance because while the Spanish system is flawed (but making slow progress) it is the nature of those that have exploited it (mostly British) and pointed the Spanish that were willing to take the low road in that direction.

I think we will simply have to "agree to disagree" although I dont disagree with everything you say as this will simply degenerate into a mutual haranguing and I am sure we both have better things to waste our time on.



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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11 Aug 2009 19:57 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Chimps said

 

''This in no way takes the fact that lawyers/courts and the Spanish Government allows corruption to go on with devastating results for many.''

Yes, this is what needs changing the most. There will always be some who don't do their homework or jump in blind, but that's little more than a smoke screen to blur the fact the majority of people were clearly cheated, despite doing what they could to protect their investment. To blame the victims is to stoop to the level of those guilty of lies and dishonesty.

Unless those in a position of legal trust have integrity as a minimum requirement for their particular job, then buying in Spain will at best be a lottery. As in my case, a hearing delayed for 12 months, then sentence delayed for 6 months against a company on the brink of going bust any day.  What homework would have done me any good there?  It's a crap system with little common sense that alone justice!





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11 Aug 2009 21:07 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

There were four people involved in the conspiracy to defraud me of my life savings. Now if all these four knew what Smiley knew, that the whole system was a minefield of corruption, they withheld that information.

Or perhaps Smiley is confused about what he knows or knew?

One minute he doesn't buy any off-plan sales, the next he is buying resales off the flippers?

In fact he has bought so many of these that when the market turns his second million will drop into his lap perhaps???

One minute the system's total corruption is common knowledge to everyone and has been for decades, the next it is OK and there are many thousands of successful purchases.

Spoilt only by the real corruption of the wicked British/Irish agents who have been leading the system astray, aided and abetted by their unfortunate clients who did not ask Smiley first, how unforgivable is that???

The real culprit, the Spanish lawyer who took my money doesn't get a mention???

Curious, could it be that those same lawyers are a fruitful source of new business to a hungry broker????

goodstich thinks Smiley is laying a smokescreen, I think he lays so much smoke, in between his bouts of endless self congratulation that he should be known as Smiley Smokescreen.

but of course he remains sympathetic to us unfortunates, well he has to doesn't he? all idiots deserve a little sympathy, don't they.

thank you smiley, but it doesn't get my money back, does it, or is that carrying sympathy too far???

Regards

Norman

 

 



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11 Aug 2009 22:15 by ads Star rating. 2388 posts Send private message

Smiley observed

"What I have simply tried to do is add some balance because while the Spanish system is flawed (but making slow progress) it is the nature of those that have exploited it (mostly British) and pointed the Spanish that were willing to take the low road in that direction. "

I'm totally confused by this statement and would much appreciate an explanation before I make judgement on this, Smiley.

Are you referring to British agents here, (the likes of MRI, Ocean Estates or whoever) by suggesting that they led the Spanish astray? If so, at what point do you question Spanish corruption, or continuing injustice, or legal malpractice in your logical argument?....... What about those clients who as others have previously pointed out are genuine clients, let down and in some cases abandoned by lawyers who appear to have been negligent in their obligation to thoroughly check  purchase contracts, to ensure the legitimacy of  BG's that were originally designed to protect the consumer, to guide and ensure that their rights were ultimately followed through?Or a legal system where even if the lawyer has won his original case is frustratingly thwarted by the injustice of delays of such a magnitude that they can no longer guarantee return of monies due to developers manipulating the legal system to their advantage.  Are you suggesting that all of those clients (and there are many) should ignore the inadequacy of legal representation that they paid hansomely for, ignore the need for lawyers to be ultimately accountable for those inadequacies, ignore a court system that is close to collapse, ignore a system that denies the client a reasonable timescale for return of their monies, and focus their angst merely against the agents?

Perhaps I have misunderstood you?





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12 Aug 2009 01:02 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2478 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Dear Norman - any property that is not brand new here is a resale - if you like to call it this way it is second hand (or possibly third fourth or even more). I didnt buy any from flippers whatsoever. They had all been lived in and were completed - read what I write instead of picking out the things you want to see, and you will understand that I only buy what I can touch and see.

The second million was a long long time ago and already been well disposed of.

Spain has always been a corrupt country - hence the reason so many criminals fled here from the UK. It has as far back as I can remember (the 60s) had a reputation for a less than dead straight system. Not hidden under the carpet and quite blatant at times. Things I tried to warn about on this site as far back as 2006 when I joined that potential buyers here should be wary.

While it is in degrees a corrupt place there have been many, many thousands of successful and very very happy property buyers here and that is undisputed fact. Otherwise the 40% of property owned by non Spaniards in the borough of Marbella (about the size of a large borough in the UK and containing well in excess of 1,000,000 homes (apartments, villas etc) would be on the market for sale - whether the market was bad or not. Until the start of the crisis still people were arriving off the plane to buy - certainly not in their hundreds as per the "bad old days" - and let me assure you they are still arriving off the plane now to buy.

If I were a hungry broker then this would most certainly not the place I would be ploughing my trade. Lending restrictions have become so tight and lenders changing criteria on almost a daily basis that it is hard to keep up. We have a steady stream of business I am glad to say - none of which these days is introduced by lawyers - they try to keep it for themselves. Even in the bad old days there were only three we had a relationship with. To my knowledge none of them received clients from the main agents caught up in the Marbella fiasco. To my knowledge they all acted correctly when they had clients purchasing in any of the dubious developments - there may be those that I dont know of as they havent opened up all their files to me as they are not obliged to as I am not their conscience nor their judge. None of them I can assure you has received reprimand nor censure.

I havent said the only guilty parties were English or Irish agents (do you suffer with Alzheimers?) - they were the main perpetrators of exploiting the system.

Dont know who your lawyer was so cannot possibly comment - unlike you who is able to comment on things you clearly know absolutely nothing about. I have made no comment about your circumstances as I know completely nothing about you nor what happened to you. If you are so able to take anything I say out of context then I rather suspect that if your lawyer did take your money he probably didnt find it terribly difficult to baffle you.

This is getting really boring and I suspect that you will never be happy until you have the last word so please be my guest and have it - I have nothing further to say. Those that have commented that all you like to do is be contentious are probably correct - in fact I start to wonder whether you have been ripped off at all and whether you have latched on to this site and the others you post in simply here to satisfy some kind of morbid amusement.

 

Ads I am not suggesting that at all. And I agree with everything you say about clients being abandoned and let down by lawyers and I agree that it is difficult to depend on a system where one judge contradicts another judges opinion. What I am also stating is that many buyers (and I have never said all) did not do their own checks - the things they would take for granted in the UK. There have been guidance books on the law published in English and not only available in alternative bookshops or on the top shelf at least as far back as 1985. I would be interested to know how many people went and found their own lawyer rather than depend on the one introduced by the agent or developer - would they do that in the UK? In a country where it is not necessary to be qualified to practice law I would hope that one would ensure they were getting the best legal advice for their money - after all buying any property is usually the most expensive purchase one ever makes. You know too well that I am not saying that anger frustration and whatever other emotions you feel, should be solely directed against the agents but without them the lawyers who did act unethically (and I agree there are many - and many I have had disputes with on behalf of clients - much easier face to face than for someone phoning from the UK or e mails that get no response) most certainly would not have been in a position to ply their trade without their invaluable input.

I dont know if you have had any dealings with Maria de Castro on EOS . She is a lawyer - is she also corrupt? To my knowledge she has helped a great many people on this site - and on many occasions with no benefit to herself. I have no personal experience but I have a good friend who is a lawyer here - and before this raises the obvious remark, he is not engaged in property at all - who knows her and believes her to be a good brief. The large majority of people (good lawyers included) are dismayed by the way buyers have been let down by Spain. 

My apologies for continuing after I had finished Norman, as I was responding to you first and then I read what Ads had said and felt I should reply.

Now you can have your final word and best wishes to you.



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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Judgement won what should I do next - 3 posts
BEWARE OF ROBBERS - 2 posts
Long term parking - 2 posts
Are there REALLY bargain properties on the Costa Del Sol??? - 0 posts
Finestrat Charity Variety Show - 0 posts
plus advisors - 2 posts
Having a great time in Spain - 2 posts

Number of posts in this thread: 1051

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