Rough justice yet again!

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25 Jul 2009 14:11 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

You know one of the worst things about this case is that they have lost various cases , still not paid out. Boss been to prison yet there are whispers that they are off building in far away places. No smoke without fire.



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25 Jul 2009 14:45 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

how very helpful and perhaps hopeful, even uplifting.

Well is there anyone out there to legally assist and hold records and funds?????????

The admin would be substantial no doubt, with much paperwork to chase.

The cases are relatively simple breach of contract and as Maria says in Spanish law everything promised must be provided.

Therefore no known brilliance is required to illustrate that nothing at all has been provided surely?

Lets go!

Regards

Norman



This message was last edited by normansands on 25/07/2009.

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25 Jul 2009 15:10 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

normansands

Quite. We have a contract signed by the developer, and no property! Could it be any clearer?. Could there be a bigger breach of contract?





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25 Jul 2009 15:20 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

All I can promise is to talk to various friends who are lawyers and would give me an honest  and free opinion.


 



This message was last edited by myra cecilia on 25/07/2009.

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25 Jul 2009 23:06 by 1962 Star rating in Iznalloz. 182 posts Send private message

Hi thought this may be of interest to you all,

This is from this week's costa Del Sol News.  -  Bizarre twist in Aifos case   -  is the head line

There has been a bizarre twist in the Aifos case and the company's unfinshed block 1 at the cala del sol developement in San Fernando.  Pensioner Benito González who paid a deposit on an apartment has now acquired the entire complex at auction after the court ordered it be offered for sale.

This is just one paragraph of the whole story, I don't know if this is of any help and I don't have the time to put the whole story on here at themoment but if it will help, I will do so tomorrow.

Regards kathy

 



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25 Jul 2009 23:59 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

1962

yes, this was on the belegal website. Further in to the article it said that the pensioner was also saddled with a 20 million euro mortgage!!!.  Some win eh?.  He said he was pleased that he owned a block of flats even if it was only for a few days. What on earth was the point of that judgement?

Anyway, not much help for those so badly cheated, just another example of lack of justice and common sense from those paid to do right for those wronged.





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27 Jul 2009 10:01 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8586 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Yes, Aifos request for unsolvency protection has been approved by the Commercial Court in Malaga. All the already started lawsuits will keep their way till Court decission.

Any creditor needs to notify/deffend his credit before the Administrators of the company and ( if necessary) before the Commercial Court.

Take the precedent of Martinsa Fadesa where off plan purchasers with no Bank Guarantee, no property to be built will be refunded 400.000 maximun each ( necessary to be an individual buyer and not a company). Banks have backed the agreed proposition.

Banks.... banks.... where are you now?

Maria



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Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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27 Jul 2009 10:59 by johnmfranci5 Star rating. 107 posts Send private message

Whats the betting that some Company will pop up out of nowhere and offer to

buy up all the assets of Aifos for the fraction of their worth leaving all the the Creditors

high and dry ?

We cannot be surpised by anything that might happen now.





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27 Jul 2009 11:08 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

this reminds me of the story of the donkey encouraged to keep walking towards the unattainable carrot on a string and stick.

is this a glimmer of hope or just a cynical trick to keep the lawyer's feeding machine fed????

who ever heard of a kind hearted benevolent bank?????

how do you complain in "hee-haw" language???

Regards

Norman



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27 Jul 2009 12:02 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Mariadecastro

If we lose our right to embargo because the court has taken 18 months to come to a decision in which time the developer has gone bust, why should we pay for the courts mistake in delaying a very clear case of corruption against a developer they knew very well was in a very fragile situation?

Surely there should be some ruling that says if you win your case, then an unreasonable delay by the courts should make them responsible for your embargo that they have rendered useless?

Who has really swindled us the most??





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27 Jul 2009 12:57 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

supposing a miracle happened and the banks completed Goodstich's purchase, complete in every way, exactly as promised.

What then?, he would have a 70% original price property to finance with the balance of his savings or a mortgage.

How good is that if the changed market values his property at 30% if at all, if it is even saleable at any price.

That rather looks like a 70% loss instead of a 30% loss.

Goodstich says that is only paper money, whatever that is?

If you then add hefty lawyers fees for a "brilliant" lawyer, has he been swindled, has he been wise????

There are experienced resident professionals on this forum, even if they have funny names and sometimes swap gender, what do they think????

What chance there actually is of a Spanish off-plan being finished to specification in all respects?????? I rather think from my experience that would take a very special miracle. Casares del Sol highest luxury holiday complex with every facility or cramped municipal urbanisation with reduced splash pools. Brochure beware!!

Just a thought.

Regards

Norman

 


 



This message was last edited by normansands on 27/07/2009.

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27 Jul 2009 14:14 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Norman

our first development we put the deposit on never got built. The development we were transfered to was completed nearly two years late and our apartment was half the contract size. When we said we wouldn't complete because of massive breaches of contract, no bank guarantee and no LFO, the agent (now gone bust) and the lawyer we had at the time said we were wrong and should complete. At that stage I realised the lawyer wasn't working in our interest, so I changed lawyer.  As soon as I changed to our current lawyer, the developer wrote to him and told him they had sold our apartment ''by mistake'' anyway and then flatly refused to give us our money back. Our new lawyer managed to get an embargo issued through the court. We then had to take the developer to court to sue them and to even get them to admit they had our money, even though we have a signed contract.  The hearing 3 months ago went well and our case looked as good as won. Then of course the delay in judgement  which has rendered our embargo useless.  So 7 years later, here we are now with nothing thanks to corrupt agents, lawyers, developers and finally a court hearing delay and then a judgement delay  to trip us up at  what should have been the final hurdle?

 





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27 Jul 2009 15:36 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

it has been a source of extreme surprise to me how many highly intelligent people, who in Britain would never accept less than what they were paying for and always expect value for money, lose these attributes when buying a "place in the sun". They seem to accept anything, despite their fancy contracts and brochures. It almost seems that the agents who post here are right when they despise their fellow countrymen and claim that they leave their brains on the plane.

Unfortunately, however persuaded, these individuals cause immense harm because they affect others and influence the whole market. Everyone who has completed on an unsatisfactory under specified property (including Justin who admits he was shafted but did nothing about it, and he does not even have the excuse that the lawyer persuaded him, since he was his own lawyer) has made the scams viable and profitable. This together with the no-win excuse for a legal system makes any claim worthless in time and money.

Given that the first lawyer acting for Goodstich knew the system, how can you argue with his advice to complete as proven by the outcome. He knew what he knew and could perhaps not have been expected to predict the market collapse and therefore did not know that his client would have been better off financially by not completing and forfeiting the deposit.

As to the second "brilliant" lawyer, given that he also knew the system, his advice to fight it remains entirely questionable, doesn't it????

Given that a judge is only a lawyer (you know the sort paid handsomely win or lose) risen from the ranks to give nothing but unwavering support to those ranks, he is hardly likely to have any concern for esoteric things like justice and rights of the individual etc., he is clearly there only to support the system. Hence the entirely predictable outcome.

At some stage we have to face the facts surely.

Regards

Norman

 

 



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N. Sands



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27 Jul 2009 15:51 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Sadly it takes a situation of Goodstich44 to highlight the real core problems that simply disgust normally sane people.

Like a previous poster I will always put forward the benefits of life and yes owning a property in Spain. I will continue to do so

What separates this and many other various debates( which at times seem to get heated with conflicting views)is that NO defence can be made. There is nothing to debate.

People with property/People thinking of buying property and those that have been screwed like this cant argue..

These situations of total abuse of the laws that are in place and the vulgar Bankers (with a B)?infuriates me and this infection can only benefit 4 sectors

The Banks

Corrupt Officials.

Corrupt Developers

Bent or greedily vile solicitors and Judges.

 

Every other single person that has any interest in Spain probably loses!

 

Corrupt developers who sold a dream and not a nightmare(You buy a gold watch and you don’t expect plastic to be delivered. If so you return it for a refund. That’s everyone’s right in a democracy and part of a European Union of which we must have the basic agreements in place if it has any chance to prosper. How long will it be before some decent people want revenge and take it to sink to the levels they have witnessed and wish ill on people in another country  .

Spain has benefited from the Brits to levels of massive proportions to be our trusted and adopted second home. They have no idea of the long term effects with the laid back don’t care attitude .

I never takes sides as I believe that each situation differs.

This is not about taking sides as there is only one side  THE  LAW  and its enforcement.

For instance some did buy on let’s say a whim and as they say you make decisions and at times you have to live with it.

 

T.V programmers/newspapers which only tell the bad stories in Spain which only proves to divide opinion often resulting in heated debates have nothing to do with this issue.

T.V programmers that used to help lead people into the idea that buying property is a road to make money have also nothing to do with this..

 

LAWS ARE THERE TO PROTECT  MUST  PROTECT (No point of any law if it isn’t and I would say even worse as at least someone like Goodstich 44 would have been aware little or no protection exists from the law or the Banks

Corrupt solicitors and judges must be bought to be made accountable .

COUNCILS/GOVERNMENT TO END THIS LOTTERY OF LEGALITIES OF PROPERTY MUST BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE

A BANKING SYSTEM THAT MUST BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE

Accountability for the Bank guarantees they in law issued to protect the consumer.

They wont accept their part then why should anyone accept the laws regarding dealing with them. Law must apply both ways?

They must be accountable for this abuse of charges they can make without recourse.

800 Euro charge for a bounced Cheque ???

Goodstich44 and many others like him may well have been conned by the sellers the developers , sadly that’s life sometimes even though it disgusts most.

That’s pales in the insignificant when these people ARE BEING CONNED BY SPAIN ,its laws , the banking infrastructure there to protect. GOODSTICH44 HAS BEEN CONNED BY SPAIN. If not then  after reading through past posts it wouldn’t have taken 8 years fighting such a basic case .

HOW ? Can after 8 years can a judge go on holiday without making judgement that a child could see is the right decision. Manyana.Manyana Manyana. NO.This cant go on while lives are ruined. 8 years !!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrr.

Yes !and how does this look when then a few days/weeks later the developer goes tits up.

What was this holiday ? A nice all expenses paid holiday and a brown paper bag?

Good on you for having the balls and determination but please don’t let this be the end.

This can’t just be yesterdays news.

 

For once there should be a thread/forum and a momentum that unites everyone.

Clearly there are some excellent posts here by many with sincere and caring nature with no other motive than to have pure common sense and justice prevail.

Someone that hasn’t  met someone  even suggesting to consider someone else’s financial losses makes me so mad. Mad that these very trusting and decent people have been simply been ripped of while those that should be there to help only kick them again when they are down. How dare they. Solicitors/Banks/Corrupt Officials and Corrupt Developers, You are a disgrace to your country and your fellow countrymen.

 HOWEVER .THIS IN REALITY THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE. You can blame each of these but its water off a ducks back.

 

WHO IS TO BLAME!  THE SPAINSH GOVERNMENT OF COURSE ! THIS IS THE TARGET .ENFORCE THE LAW OR MAKE THEM. Unless they are made to then Goodstich44 is the tip of a very big iceburg.

Thousands upon thousands of people having to give up.

Thats the only way it will get results.Forget chasing shadows of the past.The change needs to enforced and then all can take up their personal cases. 

Everyone with similar situations must unite and post their cases. I think they would be amazed at the united support they would get.

Forget Spain is Spain and that’s the way it is attitude. This hits every law abiding person and as far as rights are concerned as Spain are part of the European Union they must be held fully accountable.

Sorry for the rant. As I have said I love Spain but this stinks.

 

 

 

 





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27 Jul 2009 17:09 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

                         

Dear All,

if the financial doomsters are right......

 

 perhaps Chimps will be right and there might be change with social upheaval heralding a change to honesty and justice. Meantime if this is the market Goodstich has only gained financially. 


Similarly, in the U.K., second-quarter gross domestic product plunged 5.6 percent compared to the prior year, the worst decline since the government began tracking quarterly GDP in 1955. And ...

In Spain, public despair is rising so quickly, it's setting the stage for a massive social upheaval. Reason: The unemployment rate has surged to 17.9 percent and is expected to go even higher as Spain's labor-intensive construction industry continues to collapse.

 



This message was last edited by normansands on 27/07/2009.

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27 Jul 2009 17:55 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Chimps

yes, this is not about my risk when buying the property, I have to live with market forces like everyone. It's not even so much about the dodgy agents, lawyers and developers I chose to use through sadly believing liars in a position of legal trust. It's about the very reason they have prospered so well, and how the justice system has failed so badly in regulating against them, at the expense of those so clearly wronged by them. This is what is just so wrong. 

There is no excuse for our situation and many others like ours ending so badly. It's simply corruption by any other name from those who are paid very well to uphold the law.  Is it any wonder the property industry is in the mess it's in? We are indeed the tip of a very large iceburg.

I really hope you are right and we can move enough people in to action to change this shocking system. I'm just so tired now and sick to the teeth of it.





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27 Jul 2009 17:58 by MAGICMEG Star rating in Scotland. 546 posts Send private message

Norman and Chimp ,

I fail to see your point .Goodstich has gained nothing financially or otherwise .If he/she ? had got his  house as promised it of course may have dropped in value but he would still have the house and have had the use of it for years and many years to come . At the end of the day like Goostich  I handed over hard earned for a house not to make money but to have a house to use for holidays for me and my family I expected to hang on to it for my lifetime .

The builder has our money we  have nothing .I am sure like myself Goodstich would accept the drop in property prices as a fact of lifeand have weathered it like many are  but paying money over for goods and not receiving them is robbery nothing more nothing less robbery  . I really don't see how anyone can suggest the situation has left us better off as the property would have dropped in value any way  at least I would have the use of the house . MM



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  Nothing surprises me anymore  

     but I am willing to accept that sometimes (although not very often ) I can be  wrong !




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27 Jul 2009 18:33 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Goodstich 44

Its simply a case of the enforcement in the law thats supposed to be there

Sorry I cant go with the theory that you have somehow financially gained

You lost your deposit/ legal fees and seems like 8 years of fighting. FOR WHAT ?

Had the law been there as promised you would not have lost a penny/received repayment of legal costs and interest

As I said .There is no argument and no tip toe around this. THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT ARE TO BLAME

SPANISH LAW. Must be inforced if they are part of Europe just like we have to.

As I can clearly see. You understand that this more than your personal experience.

Its far bigger than that and its so sad you got caught in this cess pit.

A pit that only the Spanish Government can sort one way or another if I had my way.

Leave it to solicitors/ Corrupt Councils/Developers /Banks to turn all honest and trustworthy then I feel there would be along wait.

Name and shame a development and this only hurts those that have completed and doing their best to make the most of  in many cases

Name and shame individual organisations and they simply cease trading and start with a new name. They will continue to do the same . WHY? Because they can and be allowed to get away with it. THEY LAUGH AT THE LAW.

I name and shame  THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT  . Its there fault that these scum can get away with this total abuse for the laws they made to protect you/me and thousands upon thousands of others

As I said this effects us all if we have any interests in Spain

NEXT TIME IT MAY BE YOU. Or someother  poor soul . Goodstich44 is the perfect example just how bad the law and its inforcement is in Spain.         JUST FRIGGIN HOPELESS.  Thats just what they want you to feel so everyone just gives up.

 





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27 Jul 2009 19:10 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

MAGIC MEG

Please re-read my postings. I am sure that both Goodstich44 and indeed me would agree with you.

I think he like you and me is the sort that lives with his decisions. THE DOES NOT INCLUDE BEING CONNED

You were conned. Nothing more & nothing less if you were indeed caught as well.

How someone could say losing 30% is somehow a blessing instead of 100% is a question you may take up with the poster .Not Me ,HONEST.

Goodstich and many others are losing and the Spanish Law should have protected them.

 We can all live to fight for tomorrow and benefit from what we purchase in more ways than just financial

However these basic were taken away by a system thats sucks

Thats wrong and I blame above others.The Spainish Government

 





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27 Jul 2009 19:30 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear Goodstich,

you must recognise that if you are not paying a 70% mortgage for 30% or less property, as many are, you are not living with it at all. 

Perhaps you would have been if you had accepted the lesser specification and negotiated some sort of discount.

I am in the same boat, in that I am not paying a high mortgage for a low value property. It is that simple as an outcome, however we both got there.

I set out as you did to pay a high deposit for a high specification property which on satisfactory completion would have left me with a highly mortgaged property to use and rent as/if required.

As it is I have no deposit, no property but no high mortgage, so in the strictest financial terms I am better off than those who completed.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to take advantage of the situation since I don't have a second wad of life savings to use as a deposit for a bargain property, already completed and able to be surveyed.

No doubt the entrepreneurs out there are doing an "Alan Sugar" right now. I may even be able to join them if the banks in their desperation keep upping the loan to value mortgage offers, who knows.

Magicmeg, as above, you will be better off if you also can do an "Alan Sugar" and close a good deal, the discounts are already greater than 30%. Take it while you can.

Regards

Norman

 

 



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