Rough justice yet again!

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23 Jul 2009 09:18 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Justin

thanks for your kind thoughts and understanding of our situation. I can barely believe it also?  After seven years, we are let down the most by the very people who's job it is to serve justice.  

It's got worse today sadly.  I've just read on another site this morning that Aifos have now filed for protection against creditors which is the start of the end, so short of a miracle the judges six month delay on a decision looks to have cost us everything we have fought for.

meggie

Thankyou also  for your kind thoughts.

I agree, I think the average Spaniard would be outraged. Before we bought, we Spent quite a few holidays touring Spain and meeting the locals.  One of the things I loved about Spain was the people I met. I found most of them genuine friendly people with a good sense of humour and a shared sense of what's important in life. Considering neither my wife or I speak much Spanish, they were also very patient!

I wish your friends the best of luck in their fight for justice. They really sound like they have been through hell.

I can't begin to explain how angry I am this morning. It's unfair beyond belief how badly those cheated are treated by the Spanish authorities when all we want is what is rightfully ours.





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23 Jul 2009 09:24 by johnmfranci5 Star rating. 107 posts Send private message

 

As  you may be aware AIfos yesterday filed for protection from its creditors.

In have asked EOS team to start a main thread about this so all info/posts can be collated in

1 place.

Thks john.

I





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23 Jul 2009 09:28 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8580 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Let's see if the creditor's meeting is now accepted by the Judge. It is like the 3rd or 4th time Aifos apply for the creditor's meeting.  Related to this, I rad yesterday that buyers in Martinsa without Bank Guarantee and with no house are going to be first paid ( out of a majority consensus of creditors) Real good news as it is also a precedent for other unsolvency procedures, such as....Aifos for example.

Let's keep fighting. Law is there.

MAria



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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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23 Jul 2009 12:25 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear Maria,

"Let's keep fighting. Law is there."

How can this be true if there are no success stories to post?

How can it be true if all the experienced professionals on the forum say otherwise?

Where is the evidence?

Where are the lawyers offering "no win no fee"?

My natural caution and my limited pension do not allow wasted money on lawyers fees, or anything else.

So where is the proof and guarantee that it would be worthwhile?

Regards

Norman


 



This message was last edited by normansands on 23/07/2009.

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23 Jul 2009 14:02 by 1962 Star rating in Iznalloz. 182 posts Send private message

Hi goodstich,

I would like to add my sympathies along with all the others, I don't know what your story is, but to get as far as the judge and then it's another waiting game must be horrendous for you.

Regards Kathy

 

 



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Kathy




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23 Jul 2009 17:48 by Poppyseed Star rating. 892 posts Send private message

Well the cynic in me tells me the judge is a party to all this and as corrupt as they come. Good luck Goodstich.

Regards, Poppyseed

 



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Poppyseed




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24 Jul 2009 11:41 by jamesyvonne Star rating. 181 posts Send private message

Iagree it seems there is no justice in spain as soon as you get over one hurdle the goal posts change. Not that it helps but Goodstich i wish you well on your search for justice. Just saw this in thesurinenglish     A... S...   has bought the BYBLOS hotel and looking to snap up other properties. Perhaps you ought to write to our new member of the house of lords as he seems to be hoping to benefit from all the misery afios has caused........you couldn't make it up!!!!


 



This message was last edited by jamesyvonne on 24/07/2009.



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24 Jul 2009 13:05 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

thanks again for all the good wishes.

 

jamesyvonne

yes, it feels like being in the right means very little in Spain. Being in the money is a different story!

 

Poppyseed

there's no excuse is there, for not reaching a decision in 3 months!   The court knows how fragile the developers situation is. I'm still amazed they feel it's ok to treat us so badly. They are very aware of how we were cheated.

 





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24 Jul 2009 20:37 by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

I love Spain and own property there

Sadly as bad as this stuation is , someone looks like they will lose their deposit and be left with a large legal fee is probably one of many hundreds if not thousands

Thankfully the spirit of Goodstich44 is a credit to him/her as at least someone somewhere must be listening while hundreds more cases get swept beneath the carpet.

I fear that this is Spains intention of resolving the total mess they have created  in as much as many will give up the fight because of  hopeless situations like this.

How in anyway is this the way to treat British people who took Spain almost like a second home for all of these years

How is this the way to treat anyone if fact thats inflicts so much hardship and pain. People who simply put trust in a legal and banking system not in some way outer Mongolia but within the European Union

I might add a European Country that has received massive funding for its economy and now shits of those that contributed.

They should not receive 1 Penny more until the whole system shows that Spain has a credible legal and banking system that honours agreements and upholds the law.

The law is there so make them uphold it..

As I said.  I love Spain but  this sector of Banks/Solicitors and corruption are a cancer that if not stopped then I fear for its future

As hard at it is I hope the British spirit will prevail and the fight continues.

More people like Goodstich 44 MUST keep bringing their cases to the headlines of the media.To give up is not an option as this way corruption wins

Spain will not change. It has to be made to change

Boycott    . Holidays in Spain

Stop         Buying in Spain.

Stop         Buying Spanish products

Hurt them that hurt so many then and only then will Spain be a place that so many of us love and this cancer is terminated.





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24 Jul 2009 22:54 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Hi Chimps

thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I think you are right, Spain will not change without outside pressure hurting it in whatever form required. I have always loved the country also, and would love to see it in a better situation, but while the system is so wrong, and being run by people who wouldn't know justice if they fell over it, it's hard to see the change happening that would benifit everyone trying to do the right thing.

We have to believe in justice don't we, as we have to believe in right over wrong.  I have thought all along that despite everything, if we use a good lawyer we would see justice in the end. I feel this week though that our seven year battle has been all but lost. The bad guys we can fight against, and it looked like we had won, but the system looks to have made it impossible?

We had our day in court three months ago, after a year delay by the court, following a several year battle to even get the developer to court. Our lawyer put forward a very strong case along side our signed contract, leaving no doubt we were clearly cheated out of our life's savings, and the developer even made an offer before the case was heard, but due to the lack of regulation even that is not safe to accept, so we had to rely on our embargo on a property, which would would come in to action when we hopefully won our case.

Since then, much to my dismay the judge delayed a decision until September at least, and in the meantime the developer has started bankruptcy proceedings, which i'm fairly sure renders our embargo useless. So unless I am mistaken that's it, we will just be at the back of a long line of creditors, so will get  nothing!!

What more could we do?  What more can we do?  I won't give up trying, but I do feel pretty low. I really  have given it my best shot.





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24 Jul 2009 23:56 by johnmfranci5 Star rating. 107 posts Send private message

Coult the lawyers amongst us explain what exactly this means:

http://pmsabogada.blogspot.com/search?q=aifos

I take it to mean that the Aifos are asking the judge the allow them to just carry on as normal and simply not

pay their creditors ? If not then what exactly ? I don tl belive Aifos have paid any  creditors anway for a long time.

Should not this heinous company simpy be stopped from operating immediately and the Directors imprisoned for fraud ?

They have taken hundreds of peoples money and simply not built anything in many of these cases - if that is not theft and fraud  then what is ?

All theis assets should be split up and sold off to the highest bidder. I see Alan Sugar has already done himseld a deal with the hotel for 3 million Euros.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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25 Jul 2009 09:51 by GIBBOSESPAGNA Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

You have our utmost sympathy as we are ourselves in exactly the same boat!

Last night we received an e mail from our lawyer telling us that Aifos Bankruptcy had been accepted by the court in Malaga and that we will now become a number on the massive list of creditors awaiting payment from Aifos! We have been advised we can initiate a penal procedure, which will cost us another 800 euros where the admistrator would bear the penal responsibility i.e. go to prison! Some chance eh? Aifos have managed to get out of their debt  to us for the last four years and we cannot see that taking further action against them will get us anywhere. Our faith in the Spanish justice system is Zilch!

Just a little of our history with this bunch of fraudsters! Bought off plan in 2004, promised completion by 2007 - no building commenced by 2005/6 - had paid deposit and two contract payments. Contacted Managing Director of Aifos office in Manchester - she managed to delay further two contract payments for a year. Still no build commenced so she arranged for the contract to be cancelled, which we signed in May 2007 and received a post dated cheque with the money we were owed! Needless to say we were contacted by Aifos and asked not to cash the cheque as they could not honour it !!  After a further few months of hassle and aggrevation - received another cheque post dated for November 2007 - Aifos told us they were selling off some prime land. November came and again we were asked not to cahs the cheque as they did not have the funds ...and so it went on! We actually had two cheques in our hands .....so near yet so far!!! That we nearly two years ago and we still have not been repaid what they owe us. We passed our case to a Spanish solicitor, one we had met and trusted  who advised we put the cheque through the bank for it to be rejected ! ( That cost us 900 Euros as the banks charge for a bounced cheque!) That was the start of along battle of which we are sure you are familiar!

We now live in Spain and have bought a property in Costa Blanca and are extremely happy here. Aifos has been a black cloud in our lives for the last five years and they have caused us so much anxiety. We have been to court here in Spain twice - the first time we arrived in Malaga court with our solicitor not only was our name not listed for our case to be heard, but when we did finally get seen , our case was postponed as the court secretary had failed to produce some evidence requested by our solicitor! This action delayed our case four months and in that time we watched as some of Aifos creditors were trying to force them to Bankruptcy. The judge at our second appearance at court, agreed that Aifos were in debt to us and that an embargo was appropriate. We had to pay up 2000 euros for court  costs for this decision to procede. Our case was to be heard in September like yours......but not anymore!

I think we have finally come to terms with the fact that we have lost the money to this company and would only be too happy to see the directors and anyone else involved in this scam to go down.

Alan Sugar has obviously had his spies out - might be worth letting him know of our plight. Perhaps he may be sympathetic if he understands how this company has operated over the years and how we have in some way helped him to purchase his hotel for a fraction of its value....mmmm food for thought!

Anyway good luck....its helps to know that there are others who are sympathetic to your case





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25 Jul 2009 10:26 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

GIBBOSESPAGNA

i'm very sorry to hear you have also been cheated not only by the developers but the very system that should be implementing justice. Sadly we are not in a financial position to buy anything else. The Spanish justice system has robbed us of any hope of our 'place in the sun', as it has many others.  If there was any justice at all, those responsible for delaying our case ubtil it was to late to get our life savings back from the developer should be paying us themselves.  But that's the point, there is no justice in our case and many others. It's an utter disgrace.





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25 Jul 2009 10:46 by meggie Star rating in England. 114 posts Send private message

So, how do we contact Alan Sugar to let him know how he managed to get his hotel for a fraction of its value? I would be more than happy to join in some sort of 'campaign' to let him know!  But we must know the full facts first from a legal point of view.  You never know, it might even be of some help....

Goodstitch, is there anything that any of us can do to help you..in any way whatsoever?  Perhaps, in the end, not discounting the mental anguish and stress you have been through..it comes down to finance?

   Mags 



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Mag




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25 Jul 2009 11:49 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

Mags

that's very kind of you to ask if anything can be done by you all to help. I fear there are many people in similar or worse positions than I am, who probably need  help more than i do?  There needs to be some kind of action against those responsible for letting us down so badly. The problem is that the very people we should be turning to for justice are the same one's who have denied our right to it. Where do we go from here??

As for contacting Alan Sugar. I'm pretty sure his attitude would be '' tough luck loser, your loss my gain''.  Would a newspaper story on the situation be any good?.  I would guess he would have people on the case to make sure restrictions are in place to protect his name against any suggestion of foul play or taking advantage of our loss?

Suzanne on this forum has made great progress in making the case for those of us cheated, but will that ever lead to compensation for those cheated ultimately by the system itself?  Who knows?  

I can't just sit back and be robbed, but at the same time, I can't do much more on my own. Those responsible for our justice are obviously very aware of this, as they are very aware of the fragile position of those developers we are up aginst, and string us along until they go bust.  I might sound very cynicalI but I have to conclude it's corrupt almost beyond belief.





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25 Jul 2009 12:53 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

I do defend Spain when it needs defending but this has all gone to far. The banks the State are just doing as they wish. Its a case of a law for them and a law for us. Its the case of the system looking out for themselves after all who are these banks these promoters and the local and central politicians but the same people.  You try being in debt for a 1000 euros and the banks are down on you like a ton of bricks, with the system behind them to reclaim the money or throw you out of your home. Trouble is we have European corruption not just Spanish. I have not read up on Aifos but I have to presume that they have gone for Banca Rota or suspension de pagos.

Let us look at it from another angle. Promoter cannot pay the bank, bank reposses and what, well there are cases where the bank can continue with the build and sales. Do they prefer to have you lose your money that paid for the build in the first place then sell on to third parties at a cheaper price. Someone said it would cost a further 800 euro to take a case on, and the rest.

I am willing to support anyone that is willing to fight this. I have a friend who has a deposit with Aifos and are putting the pressure on for further payments.  


 



This message was last edited by myra cecilia on 25/07/2009.

_______________________

Myra Cecilia. www.costaadvicebureau.com




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25 Jul 2009 12:58 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

Justin says it is terrible, get a good lawyer, Goodstich says he has a brilliant lawyer, still no good. Others, happy and content in their secure position say it is your own fault, you did not do enough "due diligence" and if you are in the "Rusty Nail" you are suffering from sheer stupidity.

However perhaps some enterprising lawyer/entrepreneur/insurer could help with a group action scheme of some sort???

"No win no fee" - fixed cost - group discount etc.

Sir Alan may not be cuddly but his direct "no nonsense" approach is appealing, but can it be applied to Spain?

A strict financial view may be that a 30% cash deposit loss is not as bad as a 50%+ market loss?

Goodstich cannot help himself, he is driven and wont give up if at all possible.

So how can we and EOS help each other??????

Regards

Norman

 

 



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N. Sands



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25 Jul 2009 13:31 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

Apparently the apprentice is to be run in Spain. I am wondering why so many of you think Alan Sugar would join with you and take up the fight. Normans suggestion is better form a group and start studying the options. As Maria says there are laws in place. I understand that buyers have got tired of the fight but has it been the right road that they have taken. Horror stories, I come across them every day. Some are unavoidable but the non Spanish were not to know. Of course expats think that there are laws in place to help them. Of course they thought they could trust their lawyers to tell it as it is. Of course they thought their bank guarantees were what they are bank guarantees. Of course they thought that local government are aware that the Spanish economy benefits from tourism. God help our local politicians that are too ignorant to see that they are driving tourism away. ( I dare any of them to take me to court for libel) And on top are increasing taxes and making the bureaucracy of paperwork even more complex and costly. Many of us on the forum have helped to solve many problems just by knowing how the system works. Trouble is that many people now think that we can solve everything without lawyers being involved. People unfortunately think this forum which continues to be a lifeline can survive on fresh air. How many of us have supported EOS by buying the Spain Uncut DVD’? There are lawyers in Spain with whom you can negotiate with and are fair. Not someone who will take you along on a case that is impossible to win. A little truth is what you need and life can be marvellous here.

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Myra Cecilia. www.costaadvicebureau.com




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25 Jul 2009 13:38 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1636 posts Send private message

myra

thanks for your offer of help. We need to think long  about our options from here.  We sued over a year ago, but the court set our date for the hearing a year after that, knowing full well the massive breach of contract and urgentcy with regard to the fragile position of the developer. That was bad enough, but to delay the decision on the hearing by another 5-6 months?? 

Until someone in a position of serving justice has the balls or honesty to stand up and  say ''enough is enough', this injustice must stop, the system is failing the victims of fraud and corruption''  then it's hard to see justice happening?  As you say though, the system is looking after itself, at the expense of those wronged.  For the sake of all that's right, there must be an end to this, but how?

normansands

indeed, paper losses are worse than actual losses for many, but market forces will always happen, and market prices may return one day for those not forced to sell now. Having said that, market forces are partly driven by the corruption we are talking about, so change would benifit all to some degree. As you say, some sort of group action may be the only way ahead to force justice.?





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25 Jul 2009 13:47 by myra cecilia Star rating in Manilva Malaga. 213 posts Send private message

Why as suggested form a group. Meanwhile share all information on this promoter and any other. I can do some on ground investigation. What have you to lose if you dont give up. You could say your health, go about it all calmly and with a positive outlook. I am trying to sort out a scandel on one of the Islands. and so wish a lawyer would come on board with me for a small deposit for expenses and payment on winning the case. Any one out there. Otherwise I feel I will exhaust my batteries.



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Myra Cecilia. www.costaadvicebureau.com




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