I want my house

Hi Brianmags, hope your well.  I have just caught up with reading posts etc.  couldnt help but notice your one regarding Barristers.  Tony has advised that he has one and, no disrespect, but arent you both the leading members of SARC?  Why would Tony get a Barrister at this stage and you advise not too?

Sal

"if you're not going to talk sense, don't talk at all"
Obviously why only 23 posts. No sense to talk?

Hi Fin you are a good friend but a lot of what you are saying today is unfair,  the Spanish system is abusing  the rights of EU citizens more than any other EU nation and will eventually pay the price .

Back to Sal's question to Brianmags or Tonymal a Barrister indeed ! why now ? or is it just a new word you guys have learned recently and thought  would make you sound clever .Are you advising all SARC members to seek the talents and abilities of a Barrister who  can  practises at a higher level and  in higher courts than solicitors and lawyers  . Unlike other questions  which you ignore this one should be answered to reassure SARC members of your true intentions and faith in SJ/HdT  and the real expectations you have for SADM being refinanced and completed . Please explain !

But brianmags has a "Barristar" whereas Tiger has a barrister. Perhaps there is a difference?

"Spanish system is abusing  the rights of EU citizens more than any other EU nation and will eventually pay the price"
Maybe, but it is their Country and their choice.
UK bends over backwards to cater for all and where has it got us?

HI FIN

Tell you what.you pop off to Zimbabwe like the good chap that you are.  Have a couple of months with them and tell them its good to have a country where they stick to their regulations at all costs.

Tell them all about how they should use Hitler as a shining example of keeping their principles intact.

Tell them to make sure they dont capitulate and make their regulations and laws acceptable to other people.....especialy those johnny foreigners from the UK.

Then ask them how many houses they expect to flog to us next year

Hi Sal,

                    The company I chose to represent me was one that has a barister in house there fore did not need to employ one seperately but I have heard of solicitors charging extra for the services of a barrister and as I was advised that it should not be an extra charge for one as it is recogised that for representation in coucurso you will need one in court.

What I was saying was that if you go for a seperate litigation outside of the concurso to gain sepecial status then it is a waste of  money as I was adviced that no one will be granted that. So why pay thousands of euros? (as this is what it may cost you for something that wont work.

brianmags

R4 556

I Want my house

With all due respect Fin. Spain can not steal and defraud other EU citizens to their own gain  .The fact that some EU and other economic migrants are welcome in the UK and treated fairly all be it often  to the detriment of our own social safe guards against poverty and hardship is in no way  a similair situation .The theft ,fraud and  institutional corruption that has been used to  steal large amounts of  money  from EU citizens who tried to carry out a simple  EU regulated consumer transaction is appauling and will not go un punished . Spain will pay the price .If they wanted to protect their country and environment they should have done so  with laws before the construction was allowed to begin ,not cheat and steal and protect at the expense of those who did not create the situation but bought in good faith .Spain should look to itself for blame and shame  . JA

J.A.

I do have to disagree with you a bit here. Although i have had a few FRIENDLY run ins with friendinneed in the past, i do agree with the point he was trying to make. anybody can go into the u.k. without a job or a home and expect to be housed and start to draw off the benefit system almost immediately and invariably most are allowed to do so without paying anything into the country.This should not be allowed to happen. [charity begins at home] and all that. You cannot draw benefits in Spain until you have put something in, unless you are of retirement age and then that is paid by the u.k. Try jumping on a plane and landing in Australia or Newzealand or Canada and many other countries without a job or a place to live. I wont tell you what happens, you already know the answer to that. We are all sick to death of people going to live in the u.k and then do nothing but complain about our country. [how dare they we say] and yet some of us are doing the self same thing here in Spain. I have residency here in Spain but still think i will need to integrate and be accepted a bit more before i can justifiably open my mouth and start to criticize their customs and their country.

Perhaps also you could explain your sentence a bit more:  The theft, fraud and institutional corruption that has been used to steal large amounts of money from EU citizens who tried to carry out a simple EU regulated consumer transaction.  I presume you are talking about people who may lose all or some of their deposits on trying to purchase a house?

        Bob.

I have been reading the arguments below with great interest and am pleased to note that (is it because it is the season of goodwill to all men and women?) although there have been disagreements, nobody is making offensive comments and there are no really nasty remarks. 

I agree with Bob, if we are living in Spain, we have to learn to accept the bad as well as the good, though that doesn't mean we can't try and change things for the better.  Let's be grateful that we can criticise the way things are done in Spain without fear of reprisal.  Let's also remember that many Spaniards have lived under the Franco regime, so I suspect that they aren't overly keen on lots of laws and regulations.  We should also remember that Spanish buyers are in exactly the same situation as us - one of the estate agents in town told us that 4 members of his family paid deposits at SADM.

Sue

Hi

This is a reasonable debate isnt it.......it must be the season of goodwill like Sue says.

The initial point i was making that gave rise to this is that the Spanish housebuying system needs a revolution, because its archaic and unfair to buyers.  I still think that, i think its a mistake to just go on buying a house from this builder after their problems, unless you have more guarantee about its completion.  Thats my point really.

For Hawking.....hi Bob.  The statement about getting a house in the UK if you come in from abroad, being easy....and going straight into the benefits system.  Im sorry to say it but you are not even close to being accurate and maybe have read too many tabloid newspapers for the facts?

The Spanish social security system used to support unemployed people from becoming unemployed, for 6 months, then the benefit is stopped.  Is that still the case in Spain do you know?

Also what is the system of social housing provision in Spain..........if someone has moved over there for a property and the builder shafts them...............is there any assistance for those people at all?

Brian

For Briando55.......Hi Brian.

If you are a EU citizen with a valid passport you are entitled to all U.K. benefits when arriving in the U.K. Tabloids are not always correct, like YOU arn't and also like ME, but i have read and also seen on the news various instancies over the past few years where people from overseas HAVE come in without jobs or a home and have been put up in accommodation and been given benefits. A particular example was a couple of years ago Hounslow council, who are always under enormous pressure because Heathrow airport which comes under their duristiction [area] and is the number 1 airport in the U.K. where a lot of foreigners land had to house a family of 5 in a local hotel at a cost of approximately 650 pounds a week and giving them benefits until they could sort there case out. This sort of situation has been reported on numerous occasions over many years and i must admit that i am very surprised that you think the facts are wrong and that you are not aware of a situation that has been a bone of contention for a long time. The government did report a few days ago in the news, that they are going to put a stop to this and also people living in the U.K. and claiming for dependants who are STILL living abroad. FACT. Whether the government put their money where their mouths are, remains to be seen.

You may be right about the spanish social security system paying unemployed people for 6 months and then stopping it, i really am not sure.

System of social housing, also not sure about, as i have never applied for a social house but i doubt very much that they would give you a social house if you were shafted by a builder [as you put it] no more than they would give you €500 if you were shafted and mugged for that amount by a thief.

The U.K. has always been considered an easy touch [who fall for the 5 card trick] by undesirables and people who know how to work the system. Yes and before you say it a lot of brits know how to work the system as well, and DO.

I think you will find that not many  immigrants, legal or illegal are put on a return plane back home. Look how long it took the U.K. to get rid of  Hookhanded Hamas the terrorist spouter who is in one of our jails being paid for by U.K. citizens and is currently appealing to the european court of human rights not to be sent home when its his time for release, as that would put his life in danger. Shame. Funny how they cry when they are caught. Did you read about his benefits?? You must have Brian you cannot be that far behind the times.

I think the U.K. deal pretty fairly with people who want to live there, perhaps too fairly sometimes, that is why the population has risen from 58 million to getting close to 70 million in the last 30 years or so, and no it is not due to a U.K. BABY boom.

                     Bob.   [ I want my money back ]

Hi again Brian.

Sorry but one point i missed.Would you be kind enough to explain why you think the spanish house buying system is archaic and unfair to buyers???

                 Bob.

Hi Bob I meant all purchasers Spanish and any other  EU  nationality  who are purchasers also those who bought in good faith and have since had their properties demolished due to several different land and coastal building laws  .I believe this situation affects many  nationalities of EU citizens including Spanish .

As for other comments I can't remember who said what , I would never want to settle in any country and not integrate with the community ,culture , language or social fabric of that country .I would also respect and adhere to  social customs ,codes of behaviour and respect any religious culture and preferences within that country .I would fully respect  and live by all laws of that country but would expect that all natural citizens of that country  respected  and treated me within and by the same law .

It was never my intention to settle in Spain ,just for me and my extended family to enjoy the sunshine , culture ,food ,tradditions ,and language  during  frequent holidays .

As for incomers into the UK  I don't know about other parts of the UK but in Scotland we show  tolerence of this and welcome the diversity. We believe that over the centuries incomers from many parts of the world have enrichened our nation. We also beleive that Scots have been welcomed and  succesful migrants enriching other countries all over  the world .I may  therefore have  a different opinion  from those of you from other parts of the UK   .The Scottish parliment welcome incomers and in fact have a motto and ethos of  "One Scotland many cultures "  most  of the people I come across agree with and welcome all these things .However we see it as very important to preserve the Scottish culture ,language , tradditions, history  and Arts .There does not always need be  conflict if diversity is embraced and seen as enriching  . 

Merry Chritmas  peace and good will to all ,yes! that includes SARC may we all get what we want and quickly .Regards JA

Hi Julie.

I could not agree with you more and you are absolutely right in saying that integrating different cultures in any country is  very enriching for that country and its people. There is no argument there. None at all. I think the point that friendinneed was making and so was i and that is, that a country, any country can try to "cater for all" as friendinneed put it, but you have to do that in a sensible way treating each individual on there merits and not throwing them all out of your country but conversely, not letting them all in. There must be a balance but perhaps it is a difficult balance sometimes to put into practice.

I dont think there is too much wrong with spains house buying system, although i think you and Brian would disagree. The only thing i find quite extraordinary is their land grabbing system, although this also goes on in the U.K. quite frequently and they call it compulsary purchase but here is the difference. As with spain, in the U.K. you have little or no say in the matter but U.K.councils do pay you the market value for what they are taking from you and in spain they dont. That is a law that in spain they should change and probably will one day. Other than that i find the system is normal.

           Bob.

Hi Bob

The Spanish system in housing law is based on a regional system, with local licences and local disputes getting in the way of smooth transactions.  The local greed influences the speed of building.  For instance we were buying a property on a site that had the principle agreed 5 years ago to build, the local administration was wanting to exploit the cost of licencing to the maximum profit.  The result is we have no property, the local people have no developing infrastructure, the builder has no end product.

I call it archaic because in the UK we have a system that is national and has set fees and competition is fair and the market place is level.  Its capitalistic in the extreme....but at least you know the score from the start.

The point i picked up on that you said was...anybody can go into the u.k. without a job or a home and expect to be housed and start to draw off the benefit system almost immediately and invariably most are allowed to do so without paying anything into the country.

My reply is based on long years of experience working in social housing in the UK.  Houses are awarded in line with need and very few houses......in fact none that i know of recently, have been given to anyone who dosnt meet the criteria of the UK housing list.  The exceptions a few years ago were for some asylum seekers, these from countries we were sending our troops out to liberate, the ones we spent money on to help when other EU countries decided not to.  We are a country who try to help out others when we can i think.......thats how it seems to me anyway.

Yes there is diversity, yes there are people who hate it when even one black person gets a house or one person who dosnt work gets it rent free.

When you talk about anybody can go to the uk and get a house or imply its easy to get benefits without proper cause........im simply saying your wrong Bob............and it is something that the newspapers use to sell copy.........thats all

Its simply the diatribe of poor newspaper reporters who pick up on the odd individual case of asylum seeker being caught out that grabs the attention of people and distorts their views.

Old hookhand is a person the newspapers will keep rolling out as an example to us all to stop these people coming into the country..................as foul as the guy is.....he is just one person and has captured the imagination of the people who think the country is full of them Bob...............its not though is it...hes just the one guy.  We have even managed to deal with him with some dignity though.............he was ignored and sent on from other countries, to keep trying to peddle his crap.  At least we dealt the justice on him and locked him up..............in the end we did the right thing where others failed....

Hi Brian.

Sorry but your first paragraph starting with:  The spanish system in housing law....... and ending in: The builder has no end product. That paragraph has NO specifics at all, is meaningless, and quite honestly is just trying to blind people with science. If anyone out there can explain it in laymans language so that it makes sense, by all means do so.

In your paragraph 4 you say. Houses are awarded in line with need and very few houses...... in fact none that i know of recently, have been given to anyone who dosnt meet the criteria of the U.K. housing list.  Well, people who are made homeless through no fault of their own, i.e. A publican whose business goes into liquidation and he becomes bankrupt and he lives with his family above the pub, becomes homeless and is found accommodation immediately. Often temporary to start with, followed by permanent accommodation. He met the CRITERIA.

An EU citizen with a valid passport as i said earlier, who enters the U.K. and is found not to have a home is deemed homeless and is dealt with accordingly as they have met the CRITERIA. Some councils will insist that you will have lived in there catchment for at least 6 months before they can deal with your case, but of course that is quite often not too difficult if you know of someone in the area who is willing to say you have lived with them for at least that period and often again it is someone of the same nationality as you. As i said before: a lot of people know how to work the system and DO. Of course benefits would also be claimed. With modern day technology, news travels fast on the international grapevine.

Hookhand is just ONE guy. Read the papers Brian that you think tell lies 100% to sell copies. M.I.5 and M.I.6 both say that there are about 2000  terrorists in the U.K. on their list, plotting against the U.K. and some even spouting hate as did Hamas, and also many of them living in council houses and drawing benefits. How many council houses were raided in the past 6 months when some have been arrested and also jailed. Yes the U.K. dealt with Hookhand but it took a few years to do that and god only knows how many impressionable young people were affected by then.TOO late. Then he was sent to prison costing the tax payer money, instead of sending that nice man back home. Oh, i forgot, his life might have been in danger.

I wish the housing and benefits system in the U.K. was as foolproof both to U.K. nationals and immigrants alike, as you firmly believe in all your years of experience, but alas it is not and you saying its only one or only the few, wont stop the MANY.

Therefore Brian: i will leave you on that note and will agree with you to DIFFER.

                           Bob.

 P.S. Those dreaded newspapers and T.V. even give a phone number for people to ring regarding housing and benefit fraud. You  see it is more than just one, or a few without PROPER CAUSE.

This message was last edited by HAWKINGS111 on 12/9/2008.

This message was last edited by HAWKINGS111 on 12/9/2008.

Bob

The housing creteria is met by someone who is homeless............thats the whole point isnt it?...........When someone is assessed as intentionaly homeless then it dosnt apply.

If someone just decides to walk out of a place and turn up on the social housing doorstep then that is most likely intentional.......when someone has a life event that makes them homeless...thats not intentional and the criteria most likely applies............hope thats a bit clearer.................by the way there is no category that says if your a terrorist come and have a house....thats absurd to even suggest,.whats your point there....become a terrorist and get a house?  All council house tenants are terrorists?

Did you know one in seven people are on the housing waiting list in the UK?......how many million is that Bob......and i bet you dont know how many terrorists are from private housing eh...or are doctors or bankers or butchers, bakers and candlestick makers eh

The paragraph about spanish housing law.....you seem to have skipped the specifics and gone straight into the end of the paragraph.

To tidy it up.....The Spanish have local licences.......we have national planning requirements.

The Spanish give local approvals in stages..........we have just outline and full planning, all objections raised before...and this is important to grasp...before work starts.

The evidence shows that local Spanish politicians hold licences to ransom to raise the cost of the land purchases.  They delay and they delay.........and in our case (more specifics) we had to wait 5 years for a building licence request to travel backwards and forwards to the politicians office, and each time they said yes we will, later.....manyana....when the price is right...The building never took place, we have paid for something we havnt got...........the builder has got our money...........we have no property, no security of the money...............and all we have to look forward to if the builder comes out of administration is..

The whole process starts all over again......................good eh

Now thats what i call archaic systems Bob me old.................

We do have national planning requirements, as we do regional and then down to the interpretation of the Local Council.
What is accpetable to one Council may not be to the adjoining.

The evidence may show that local Spanish politicians hold licences to ransom to raise the cost of the land purchases. Much the same as with UK Local Authorities and Section 106s which the developer is held to ransom to pay up for some improvements the Council wants, therfore and in effect, increases the price of the land.

We are not whiter than white in UK.

Hi FIN

The two examples you put before us are about as closely related as the white elephant is to the flying pig.  Aside from the fact they are both mammals they are fantasy objects used to be descriptive.

Like the decorations on a Christmas tree...............and a bit like the point you make......disposable

Obviously you have never been involved in a major development where Local planning issues and Section 106 has been enforced.
Not something that would involve social housing.

Of course, your comments are opinion and not fact.