Is living in Spain really that bad now???

Pat

Don't be sorry.

A pleasure to read, hope your circumstances remain the same and things improve.

At the moment here, a glass of wine outside seems very far off, rain, snow, hail and sleet today with a few seconds glimpse of the sun.

Regards

Norman

Hi pat just read your post a great read it sound so nice where you live Irene

Many thanks to PAT for her magical post,  this type of post will help those of us who begin to waver when they read posts of selfish people.   Many Brits don't wish to live without a water & electricity on tap but Pat has the magical Spirit of Spain & I wish her every happiness.  We should all take a leaf out of the same Book & at the same time keep up the fight for justice.

Pat   

great post, well done and good luck. It's great to read a balanced post that takes account of good and bad, has real sympathy for those cheated, and a clear  understanding of what needs to be done by the Spanish government.  You don't know how good it is to those of us cheated to read such a fair and well meaning post. A very interesting read indeed, and sounds like you have the right attitude to make it through the tough times and enjoy the good times.

Thanks to you all for your replies to my previous post.

For all the people wanting to relocate, but not quite having the courage to go ahead in the light of all the bad publicity that Spain has received of late, I hope that I have given you a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. It is easy to get sucked in to all the negative aspects and not be able to see what Spain can offer if you only give it a try.

I know it is easy for me to say this as we have not been directly affected by the corruption. All I can say is "be careful" and I hope that you can eventually achieve your dream.

If you need any further information that you think I can help with, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Good luck to you all.

Many thanks for a wonderful post, Pat.  Really enlightening.

Thank you Pat for such a down to earth and enlightening post.

If we ever get our money...........................................well we'll not go into all that, but you have only confirmed what we wanted to come to Spain for and what we are missing. 

Dear All,

though an inspiring story with some fascination, not for all of us.

We could not swap our grandchildren for a couple of dogs, but we would have liked the promised luxury holiday home.

If we ever get our money...........................................

here here

Regards

Norman

Hi Pat,

Great post and very encouraging, we are on the point of agreeing a purchase. Despite all the agro and loss of funds we are still determined to move to Spain and enjoy all that is good about it. Our funds are less but the property is half what it was two years ago. Keep on enjoying life to the full just as we intend.

If any money results from our actions in the court it will be a bonus but we still have enough funds to enjoy our retirement.

Thanks for the encouragement it makes a very pleasant change from all the doom mongers  and knockers. Its snowing outside and Spain suddenly looks like a paradise (weather wise)

Will certianly bounce any questions off you.

picking up on a few points from others, particularly those in response to my posting: i feel qualified to put in my two penworth

 why are a lot of ex pats nipping back to the uk and the dear old nhs for prescriptions and treatment

why are they giving false addresses in uk to perpetuate their scams

why are so many not bothering to obtain residencia-have they something to hide?

why are so many not paying income tax on their incomes, pensions bank interest from the uk in spain-if they love living here so much

how can you compare the inheritance tax in uk with that in spain. in uk you are not  penalised by having to pay tax on your spoose's effects, and the threshold  there is £300,000 on the estate.  why do people in spain have to go to such desperate lengths to minimise the amount of iht

why do  so many ex pats refuse to change the registration on their uk plated cars when they become residents. they are cheating spain by not paying road tax and their insurance is not valid-unfortunate for the poor victim

why cant they realise that the community charge is less than uk, but the difference is more than made up by the hidden costs :

interpreters=i do speak spanish but very few will manage without one when visiting  doctors, specialist medical consultants etc. because most will never attain a high degree of fluency

funeral insurance-a must out here unless you are wealthy

securityguard fee- necessary in urbanisations, where despite what others say, burglaries are rife

dearer insurances (with less choice)

dearer electricity, water, food

accountant- to make that tax declaration

repairs!

also, there is definitely a head in sand attitude to what will happen to you if you become incapacitated or when you are old, if you are infirm

in short, if you are very rich, have no scruples about scams, no intention of sorting your financial affairs in order to comply with spanish rules,  no respect for road regulations, remain in good health,then you will do well in spain.

Dear All,

Thanks again Camposol.

delighted you are not discouraged, facing the truth is not easy for the spinners, they prefer to shoot the messenger.

They also find it very difficult to realise others' circumstances.

Georgia for instance, although some sort of estate agent, exaggerated Goodstich's deposit loss, giving a figure that may have been nearer the total cost, it was so long ago. Possibly similar to Bobaol's historic purchase.

However the figure for me was close to the truth and most of my life's savings, but please no sympathy, it does not feed the kids or give them any inheritance, just attack the wrongdoers, get things changed that is the prority and will make Spain a better place for holiday makers and ex-pats.

Lets see whether they can answer the detail without spin and declarations of undying love.

Give us the facts.

Regards

Norman

 Camposol, I am at a loss as to how to understand your post.  None of the very many people I know who live in Spain, would bother to 'nip back to the dear old NHS' just to take one example of your difficult to follow post.  Why would they when the Spanish system is so much better????  Just to be completely free??  I don't get it.  I for one would rather pay, either through insurance, or directly into the system to get GOOD and IMMEDIATE treatment, with access to the specialists you need to see instead of being blocked at every turn.

Last time I looked, the Spanish health system was 6th in the world while the NHS was 20th - and falling.

Obviously if you know so many tax dodgers and disreputable people, life must be very depressing, but I think you need to change your circle of aquaintances.

I agree there is an avoidance of planning ahead into old age, but that applies to people in the UK as well.    

And normansands, I am bemused by your mood swings.

Camposol,

You really have a duty to report to the UK Government if you know such abuses are taking place in your area. It is easy enough to do even anonymously. But you must be sure of your facts not just an assumption. Of course many of the "people you know" may have also have homes in UK and are acting within the rules.

Tax has to be paid on all income over the basic tax free level, which is actually at a lower level in UK than Spain, so  are you suggesting that because  people are not paying Spanish tax they are getting their money gross ? If so you are greatly mistaken. The UK continues to take the tax unless one can supply details of one's local Spanish tax office.

Everyone should have some form of life insurance, and am sure most people do, to cover funeral expenses. Personally think specific  funeral plan policies are a bit of a rip off though.  And as for care when old and infirm don't believe the UK is any better than Spain when one is not wealthy. Years ago families lived close by but now many don't  live in the same counties so aged people have to fend for themselves unfortunately. 

When staying in the village of Rafal, near Alicante I was ill enough to need medical help, The Village surgery staff were wonderful. I am none Spanish speaking but the staff allowed me to be seen quickly even though the surgery was very busy. 

This was FREE of charge, After their expert advice, the following day I felt much better & the medication which I paid for was much cheaper than the UK.     

Oh Norman

what a shame

After making two reasonable posts to this thread you revert to type.

Does this guy Camposol actually live here????

Where ?????????????

Norman dont dredge the gutter looking for support it does you no credit.

even your alter ego Goodstich doesnt respond to this rubbish.

Norman It quite baffles me why!...... You wished to purchase in Spain at all?

Dear All,

I can only post my limited experience and hearsay otherwise.

The holiday health experience is not good, with rip-off tests that are unnecessary and expensive, professional crooks milking the insurance with sticking plaster cures to hold you just until you get home for treatment on the NHS. The direct experience is extremely limited but others tell similar stories. Whether these "medical centres" based alongside the tourist areas are even part of the official Spanish Health System, I do not know.

The people in Benidorm praise the system highly, though even they returned for some treatment, but again I cannot be sure that the return was not "status" related.

Spain's attraction for a family holiday retreat are obvious and normal with no need to eternally repeat them - climate and short flight with road an option that I have done. Neither I nor Goodstitch are immune to them, as we have oft said, though of course the cost is a factor for the less well-off.

Spain's attraction as a "permanent" home is the debate so why not debate it and stop the character insults. Which I am well able to return if necessary.

As to Goodstich, whilst I admire his persistence, I do not concur with what I have described as his overly generous view of life and business in the UK. In fact he once posted that I was "no friend" for my views.

There was once a time when I briefly considered a move to the sun, hence my interest, however watching my wife with the new grandchildren tells me that such a move would be a lonely one.

Nevertheless I am keen to receive the true facts.

I repeat - give us the facts. That surely is reasonable.

Regards

Norman

Peteha, yes he does ,the clues in his name a God forsken ****hole of an urbanisation outside Mazzaron in Murcia. All his points re. the Brits. are true but i would certainly not agree with alot of the rest re: electric ,water , food costs. Especially water. Mine here, even though it has doubled in 8yrs. is still only 40% of theM3 rate in the UK.Also most people waste huge amounts of water and if you are using it to top up a pool ( illegal) your consumption and bill will be dearer. The price per M3 increases the more you use. Electric price is fixed by the gov. and as for many years they have undercharged to the extent that all 3 big suppliers have a combined debt of 16 billion euros it's got to rise. Food we still find is far cheaper in Spain.

Floella , I agree with you. If it's got a Brit reg. & no tax post the reg. on the DVLA website for that purpose. You will probably find also that these people have declared the vehicle SORN as well. I used to feel sorry for the decent people who lived on that awful place when I had to summon up the will to go over there and work (legally ). Now , fortunately, and don't have to go near it.

Yes he's right with the need there for security cover but I think a Spanish shotgun licence is far cheaper! Funeral costs here are about 3500e for burial and cheaper for cremation . A bit dearer than UK but then my wifes best friend has just spent 13,000 in the UK on her mums funeral. Inheritance tax ; Too many people don't find out the facts before they come and assume that it's the same. Just as they don't do their homework before buying  or believe what they are told only to find, just as in the UK, they have been had over.

Why anyone would want to pay tax in the UK rather than pay here I don't understand. The allowances here are far greater and most people would pay nothing at all , Just like the Spanish of whom 85% reclaim all tax that they pay in during the year.

Normansands, you leapt on this post like a drowning man clutches a piece of wood, thinking it exposes the real Spain. It doesn't; Yes alot of what he says is true but this is a mainly Brit. urb. and all the things that occur on it are the same people that you can find in any town in the UK doing the same things.

I've always approached things here , the same way as the UK: Everyone is a crook and out to shaft me unless proved otherwise. I will give anyone the opportunity to work for me , sell to me , etc,etc, but they are told exactly what I expect and nothing less. Having said that when we bought our house here ,which we had viewed 5 or 6 times I made a decision on a handshake  and bought the same as 2 Spaniards would . No solicitor ,went to notarys, signed & left my young Spanish estate agent to pay the taxes and register the property. No problems, when We returned 3 weeks later he took me straight to the public registry office, I paid and came away with the escritura. Both he & the seller we are still friends with today. Additionally all this was accomplished without me speaking Spanish ( I do now! ) or them English.

Bri & doedoe I fully agree 100% ,why anyone would go to the UK for hospital treatment defies belief. The standards here are far in excess of the NHS, and it saddens me to say that but unfortunately it's true. MRSA is unheard of here due to proper cleaning schedules. The service here is second to none and is far, far quicker in my area than I've ever experienced anywhere else.

Guslopez, brilliant post!  Extremely informative and realistic!! 

Camposol's post basically slated the Brits - quite rightly so, for their avoidance of anything to do with legality!!!  I now see it more and more living here!

Maybe if more of the Brits contributed to the country they actually LIVE in it would be a better thing!!

Dear All,

my main complaint is against a British solicitor who lived in Spain and worked for a Spanish/International law firm, but also against British and Spanish agents and Spanish employees of the Spanish developer. I therefore regard the corruption as multi-national.

the difficulty for Brits to maintain themselves in work in Spain, to live the lifestyle with income, leads to severe pressure on basic honesty, I suppose.

however the suggestion that the Brits are buying on developments and then turning them into crime ghettos is a bit hard to accept.

so the Brits are the criminals and responsible for the burglaries - can this be true Camposol and Guslopez?????

or is it unsold properties being let to the lower orders on a larger than normal scale????

Regards

Norman