Is living in Spain really that bad now???

I like the tone of ads latest post

The only problem is that Goodstich's post' s do come across as somewhat negative because whatever the thread the posts only apply to his personal situation.This does alienate people and makes them think twice about posting

Don't know if belittling someone who has lost 60/70k is particually in the spirit of EOS ???

Sure we have to do our bit to support those who are dealing with property/corruption issues, but not every post in every thread!!

We are lucky enough to spend time in Spain and as our place is in Almeria province ( 5k from the Prior's ) we can get to the demonstrations, and do so, Some choose this forum as a way of showing support and indeed informing us of what;s happened in thier indivdual situation, but this must be tempered as not to alienate.

Lets listen, inform try to understand others situations and offer support

Perhaps this is the nadir of this thread and better to come

And on a very personal note we fly to Spain tomorrow for a bit of rose tinted and cheap booze (joke joke)

David

excellent post, have a good time

Norman

David W.

Many of my posts are not to do with my situation but are typical of it.  As it happens my litigation is finished, so I have nothing to gain myself , but post to try and warn others or simply to discuss the current situation. If you don't like it, then don't read it!

I've had interesting talks with several people today including Maria, the very helpful lawyer who posts on EOS. Did we stoop to cheap insults? because we don't always agree or feel a point has been made many times before?.... no, we had a good discussion and agreed there is much to be done to help everyone involved with Spanish property.

Once a thread is reduced to personal insult then the point is lost, and I'm the first to admit I've made that mistake in the past, but I've learned from it. I hope others can do the same.

We  came to Spain in 2005 with a view to buying a holiday home but decided the Costa Brava was not for us. returning to the UK we purchased an appartment so subsidise our pensions when they kick in.

The recession has seen its value fall by 20% and its rental income by 12% The management company's agents  in their incompetence allowed debts to spiral without raising the service charge, the company was on the verge of being struck off which would have rendered all the apartments practicall valueless and the place was starting to look very dilapidated as no cleaning or maintenece was being done. I joined as a director(unpaid) as I had some experience of running another developement and with the help of a few others and a new manager from the paid agents we have turned the place around slowly and hopefully eventually my investment will come good.

On paper everyone has lost money but some residents think positive and others think negative, one man in particular refused to pay his service charge and it was pointed out to him that he could forfeit his property back to the developer and his first rection was, well let it happen. It was then pointed out that should this happen he would lose his home and still owe the mortgage company as they would lose also, he did pay in the end.

Is living in Spain really that bad could be substituted with practiaclly any other country.

We are still coming back but have decided the Costa Del Sol is more suited to our requirements, but unles someone manages to convince me differently thin renting will be the route we will go down.

Ant

I'm surprised people still read Goodstich's post to be honest.  As soon as I see one of his/her posts, I quickly scroll past it because even though it's a new post, I've already read it a hundred times before.  The same old tedious stuff that rarely has anything to do with the thread title.  This thread was supposed to be about living in Spain, not corruption or property speculation gone wrong.

Goodstich

I would like to think that you didn't insult Maria as she was answering specifics set by you!!

Also, you may have been insulted today by not by me, although your post reads so.

As someone who actually lives in Spain (a bit of a novelty for this thread!!), I would say that things are pretty grim if you need to work and earn a living here.  At least on the Costa del Sol.  There's no jobs here, property prices continue to plummet, there's loads of half finished or abandoned buildings/developments and loads of empty shops/restaurants etc.  The economy is continuing to get worse.  The whole "green shoots" thing completely passed Spain by.

There also seems to be more and more people moving back to the UK, which can be a bit unsettling when you see your friends moving back home.

Fortunately both me and my wife have got decent jobs at the moment but we may eventually have to move to Madrid or one of the big cities to find work.  I wouldn't mind Madrid to be honest as that is more like proper Spain.

Saying all that, the lifestyle here is great and I would be very reluctant to move back to the UK.

This is just my take on Spain.  I'm sure for those that are retired or don't need to work, life in Spain is a more positive experience.

Sanchez1,

live in Madrid is very expensive, salaries still low and you have to travel long distances to get to work by public transport as it is impossible to drive. So Madrid is not as good as you seem to think. I would prefer to move back to the UK than living in Madrid!

Dear All,

I have nothing to say except thank you for the recent honest informative posts without spin and insult.

Suits me

Great thanks again.

Regards

Norman

Good well balanced post David W

If you take out the two professional whingers from this post neither who have or ever will  have

lived in Spain it is an interesting thread.

one of whom says he never has a bad word about any body but stoops to sending his

ill informed insults by private message.

Wow things can get a little heated here can't they? but hey this is SPAIN it is their culture not ours and we must learn to fit in and to remember it is always manana, lose the frustration and you lose the stress. I do feel for all those who have been caught out with fraudsters. 

 Just a by the way, we are pensioners who come here for 6-7 weeks at a time, cannot afford anymore to eat out a lot (but do enjoy the tapas) love the fresh food and vegetables, am trying hard to learn Spanish as enjoy our spanish pub (where they speak english like I do spanish, so we all have a laugh) the mountains and their hidden villages are fantastic, and no I don't miss english food, I can have that when I return home.

We knew all about the backhander legal system and black money but I would not have liked to have lived under Franco and I am sure in another 20 years or so this country will catch up with the rest of Europe, (would I like it then tho?) I would happily retire here completely but my daughter is a widow with a young son who needs the presence of both my husband and myself. I hate it when it is time to return to the UK and whilst there look forward to getting back here. I do live in a very pretty town in West Sussex but do feel a lot of pressure when there, too many cars, people too rude (and that includes some pensioners too). Like many pensioners who live here in Spain, we too find we struggle to make ends meet, however once that plane lands I breathe a sigh of relief. With age comes arthritis so the sun really makes a difference and yes we too have a hot tub and believe me it helps all those ahces and pains.

Mo Nueva Andalucia

Goodstitch you stated "Sadly though, some on here prefer to close their eyes to it and just say   ''it's just a small amount, most of us are happy.''......Selfish almost beyond belief!"

Perhaps there are members on here who are offended by that remark.  How can you know what people who live here/are content with their lot here have done about "your" (as you make it so personal) cause?  Who, exactly, are you calling selfish? The fact that you ARE in the minory is just that.  Fact, nothing more, nothing less.  That doesn't mean that people don't care - it's just a fact.  And even though I, and MANY others have said this, it won't make a blind bit of difference to you, because  you are insistent on ignoring those posts that don't agree with you.

That's the whole gripe really.  As Sanchez1 says "I'm surprised people still read Goodstich's post to be honest.  As soon as I see one of his/her posts, I quickly scroll past it because even though it's a new post, I've already read it a hundred times before.  The same old tedious stuff that rarely has anything to do with the thread title.  This thread was supposed to be about living in Spain, not corruption or property speculation gone wrong."

I have signed the petitions and emailed relevant people  - does Goodstitch know that???  No.  Because that's my personal business.  What else would he like me to do?  Leave Spain? Slate the whole Spanish nation?

Let's hope this thread dies really - because nobody cares why it was started in the first place anymore! It has nothing to do with "living in Spain" now, as only a handful of people who have actually commented on this thread are qualified to do so!!

If you all keep giving the doom and gloom mungers the ammunition, then they will keep firi.ng

the bullets, just ignore it and it might go away.

i live in Sucina,Murcia and Nottingham

WELL SAID PITBY

BE CAREFULL ANTHOMO THE ROTWELLERS WILL BE AFTER  YOU

FOR DARING TO SAY YOU LIKE ANYTHING  SPANISH.

DONT LET THEM PUT YOU OFF.

AS NORMAN SAYS BITTER MOI? NOT HALF

Hi all,  Fact there is corruption in Spain,  Fact (Some) Builders, Lawyers, Estate Agents & Notary are fiddling the system.    Many people are affected and are suffering financially. I know because I am one of those. If you wish to stop this you must stick together & go throught the correct channels. Look to your local Government office & find the people that will be able to help.  I have contact with an MEP member who is fighting our cause in high places, for not just me but for all those of you that have & are still suffering at the hands of the poor Spanish Government legislation.   Do you stuff, stop complaining and find the right person to help you.   Stop this silly bickering with poor misguided sole.  

I Love Spain & hope one day to be able to enjoy what we have saved all our lives for. Many happy years in Spain & A Happy Long Retirement.

GOOD LUCK , ASK YOU LOCAL MEP, THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR.

Dear All,

to return to the thread if allowed hearsay, it all depends on ones circumstances.

the original attraction largely remains the same, nobody chose it to be miserable, but lack of work to a working family and an overstretched pension brings actual poverty and that brings misery. If the solution is over the horizon then that is where you are led, no matter how reluctantly.

we know of a couple near Estepona who can record the changes over a thirty year period but have no plans to leave.

we also know of a couple in Benidorm with little disposable pension who only rent and have ducked, dived and skimmed to retain their position. Having to leave in summer when the rent is too high and coming to UK when the weather is bearable, perhaps gaining some legitimacy. They have been doing this for many years though lately they have not had to leave their flat to make way for holiday makers, there was none. They are elderly but have the advantage, most particularly the lady of the better climate, he describes her as an athlete in Spain and a cripple in England. She has had good health care in Spain but has had to return occasionally for some treatment here. They will carry on as long as they can eke out their pensions.

perhaps if the banks had supported GB and his fiscal stimulus as was done elsewhere - China 8.5% growth in a depression, then the £ would not be so weak and this thread would be - no contest.

Thanks for all the sensible posts.

Regards

Norman

Pitby

Your right!!

At present we only come to Spain 3 times a year in 6 week periods so i guess my take is perhaps more holiday mode!

I do know a lot of pensioners on fixed incomes and yes thier disposible income has been hit

I know a lot of young people trying to work and service morgages and struggling and some going back to the UK

There are a lot of different reasons for this and it's not uncommon for people to try and then return home, even the Poles are leaving the UK

So i for one am happy to listen to the qualified opinion of people doing it full time, this makes it easier for me to decide wether or not to take that step!

And your right of course this thread is dead, murdered in fact!

If this posts in means my new dongle is working

'posts without spin and insults' -  a quote from normansands post. He seems to forget that he referred to people as 'mentally challenged'  and also called others 'sillies', does he even decide what is or isn't an insult along with goodstitch and his ' selfish beyond belief ' post. Most of the posts I read even if I don't agree with some of the content are interesting and eyeopening, but I am afraid as regard Normansands I always feel as if he is preaching to all us other poor souls who are either mentally challenged or silly or even showing our ' bare bottoms ' though where on earth he got that from I don't know.

Had to include this bit of news from the uk. an employer recruiting staff has had to remove the word reliable from the advert in case it offends people who are not reliable. Political correctness gone mad?  Now that is silly!!!

Kathy

Well done Norman

a good well balanced post with information.

not hard is it

keep it up

As you can see I am fairly new to EOS and have been looking on this thread to see what comments other people have with regard to "Living in Spain", but after a while I got a bit bored with it as it seemed to be a slanging match between some of the more active members.

In reply to the original thread, we moved to Spain about 8 years ago and live in a small mountain village, it has not been easy and is very often frustrating with the drivers and the red tape, but we would not go back to the UK. When we speak to people about our life here we say that it is not paradise but it is as near as we are likely to get. We work hard but it does have its compensations, like sitting on our terrace in the evening with a glass of wine watching the sun set over the mountain, taking the dogs for a walk in the mountains or on some occasions out of season, on the beach.

It is like going back 50 years as we have limited electricity and low water pressure in our house and the shower dies sometimes (when you are covered in soap) because the pressure will not keep the boiler alight. We do not have central heating and use a wood burner in the winter, but enjoy going "logging" in the mountains and then spending hours in the garden cutting up the logs with the chain saw. Would we accept this in the UK?  NO is the answer, but it is quite acceptable in our more laid back lifestyle.

We find it very difficult learning the language and are still learning and I think it is true when some of the other posts say it is an age thing, but we know enough to get by and I don´t think we will ever be what I would call fluent, but at least we try and don´t expect the Spanish to change for us. When in Rome and all that.

We go back to the UK to visit family and friends occasionally, for very short periods, but are always glad to get back and our friends and family vist us often as they love our laid back lifestyle.

It is certainly more difficult now because of the increase in the cost of living, fuel and food have increased substatially, but when you only have to pay about 200 euros a year for what in the UK would be community charge, then that certainly evens some of it out. Work is harder to come by and wages much lower than the UK, but as long as we can do enough to pay our bills and eat and keep our head above water, then that is fine. We are thankful that we can at least do that and if we can make it to the end of the recession, however long that may be, then that is fine. It will go full circle and at some point will level out and hopefully we can all start to move forward again. We have found that our secret is to keep a positive attitude and thankfully we are quite adaptable, if one job dies out, look for something else not neccessarily what you originally chose to do and above all don´t give up on the dream at the first hurdle.

Thankfully we have not been caught in the web of corruption and do have heartfelt sympathy for those that have. No matter what is done about it, it can never be enough to compensate people for the worry, hurt, dissappointment and in most cases financial hardship that it causes. I sincerely hope that this problem can be resolved before long, but somehow I don´t feel confident that it will, but surely there must come a time when people can consider moving to Spain without the worry of being cheated out of their hard earned money. Even the Spanish government must come to accept at some point that it is doing the country no good at all to carry on in this manner.

On saying all that, Spain is now our "home" and unless something happens beyond our control then I think it will be for the rest of our lives. Living here is not for everyone, life would be very boring if we all liked the same, each to their own as they say.

As some of the other posts have said "viva españa".

Sorry, if I´ve gone on a bit