Is living in Spain really that bad now???

Good post Ads.  As you say, it depends on the area one lives in before people can say Spain offers a better life than  the UK. Speaking for myself, like you, I live in a lovely part of the country. Sure there are some bad elements in every society, but I wouldn't be fleeing the country because of them. Apart from more sunshine, I do not think Spain is the Shangri-La that many on this thread make it out to be.

Tish - your unemployment chart is a load of rubbish - unemployment in Spain is MUCH higher than that!

Max, not MY graph...it came from the Daily Telegraph!  http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/files/2010/04/scary.jpg

 I'm sure you are right though. The same as the unemployment figures in the UK are much higher than stated. Many people do not register as unemployed because of the social & financial implications of being unemployed.

Hi Tish - yes indeed - and then there are people on phantom courses, walking wounded (disability), government non-jobs at 80,000 pounds a year etc etc.

The most sensible way of measuring total unemployment, to me, would be to add all of the tax payers who are working 40hr weeks, half the taxpayers on part time, and subtract that number from the census figure for total population (which by its nature is, admittedly, somewhat vague).  

One thing I do not understand, and it must be a government approved racket, is why, when there are SO many unemployed Spanish, that the government is allowing so many Moroccans into the country.  The Extranjero department of our local police station is choc-a-bloc - and surprisingly?? - the benefits office as well.  Why import problems?  Are we copying Bitain?  Is Zapatero importing client voters?

Orinoco - I LOVE the Daily Mail - Richard Littlejohn is my hero - does that make me a bad person???

Have a go at www.voteforpolicies.org.uk/ - it might surprise you!

What is it with "fleeing". Why do any of us have to have "fled" the country? I spent 18 months learning the language, sorting out a job, getting an apartment organised. It was hardly screeching tyres to the airport stuff. Why is it OK to "flee" to Cumbria and not Spain? Working in IT am I more likely to find employment in the Lake District or Madrid? Why not start "Eye on Cheshire" and alert potential ex-pats to the benefits of relocating there? Who is saying Spain is for everyone? I´m delighted for anyone who has found their little corner of the UK that they´re happy with. My parents have just sold up and moved down to Devon and love it. 
I liked the challenge of a complete life change, I had no idea at the time if it was going to be something permanent or not, I was only 28, but I wanted to give it a go and I´m glad I did.  

No Max, he´s BNP leader Nick Griffin´s favourite journalist as well which is a good indication of the content of his columns. I think the Daily Mail is a first class "read" if you´ve an interest in reality TV and Jordan´s tits.

Never seen Jordan's "tits" as you so succinctly put it  orinoco, in the Mail!! Sure you are not a closet Sun reader and confusing your papers!?

No I have never seen that in the Daily Mail, are you sure that was not the Star Newspaper?????????

Pat, Roy and Tish,

I presume Jordan is a naturalist and has been photographing the ornithological visitors to her garden. 

Orinoco

Quick question - how is the informatica (IT) game nowadays?  Any jobs going?  I can do php, html.....but don't qualify, I guess, as I don't read the Grauniad.

whatever your opinions about living in spain the following are true- i've had nine years of it

lack of regulation means you will have problems obtaining your rights, especially if that problem is to do with iberdrola, developers etc

the cost of living IS more expensive than the uk-120 euros for 2 months, living modestly, only one heater in use? you're having a laugh!

the inheritance tax rules are definitely something to be feared. income tax is a nightmare( to those who actually pay it)

many ex pats continue to live as if still in uk-returning to use nhs services fraudulently by giving false uk addresses, refusing to pay income tax in spain on their pensions and other income from the uk, not obtaining residencia, driving their uk plated cars as residents. yet these same people say they would never return to the horrible old uk!

weather isn't everything-harsh winds, sahara rain, freeze in winter fry in summer

constant repairing of walls due to poor consruction and finish

most ex pats give no thought as to what to do when they get older or become frail, needing personal care or help in the house or garden-not everyone retires on a huge pension. some are in for a big shock

let the "smugs "get on with it"- the above are the real reasons many want to go back to the uk, warts and all

Dear All,

to continue Fergie's wind up............

I suppose we have made a little progress, Techno is no longer being chased out by knife wielding five-year old's, it is now the drunken yobs keeping him away.

But seriously folks, if this is a valid conclusion..........

"We bought a house in Spain ten years ago, the first five years a simple and pleasant existent, mostly amongst peasant farmers.
The last five years I removed my head from the sand and realised that the criminal fraternity, mostly organised from local and regional governments are homing in on foreign expatriates, easily recognised by their rose tinted spectacles.
The expats. with their trusting, positive attitudes have missed the message, it is loud and clear, "get out", or get fleeced.
One hundred thousand homes at risk along the costas, eleven thousand in the Almanzora valley. It is naive to suggust all those people have done something wrong. Secret legal proceeding are taking place, the chances are, any of our names could well be in the courts. The stories and miseries are escalating.
Spain has proved time and time again that trampling over the rights of European citizens is a way of showing their power to the World.
Please do not walk over the elderly bodies of your fellow countrymen and woman being sacrificed in the quest of greed and power by the Spanish authorities.
Remember the nice Spanish are not in charge, the criminals and racketeers are running the show.
So the positive attitude may be to stick your head in the sand and hope for the best, it works for chickens."

................................................................things are less than good and if the pundits are right about UK finances the £'s prospects are dismal, which rather means that UK pensioners had better stay well clear. Unless of course thay have got the Owl's double plot reserves.

Camposol we have had two days of 60' sunshine, working hard with the lawn grass, daffodils are gone but tulips are out, the eating pubs are full and not a yob in sight, even the paddock pumps are running dry. Every allotment site is buzzing though the enthusiasts have not yet got the same rosy glow as Justin's pair of models. I even have to take the pullover off when working and the young are all showing their bum cleavage, belly jewelry and arms full of tatoos.

What a life!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

Norman

This message was last edited by normansands on 10/04/2010.

Hi Orinico,

Are you working in Madrid at the moment?  If so, what's the IT market up there like?  From looking on infojobs.net there seem to be a lot of jobs but most don't say what the salaries are.  I'm a SQL Server DBA/developer working on a contract in Gibraltar at thhe moment but may need to move up to Madrid in the near future as it's a bit of a car crash workwise on the Costa del Sol.

Do you know if contractor work is popular in Madrid?

Cheers

Sanchez

You will have to read the Grauniad if you want a job....The Daily Mail is only for Nazi breast obsessed perverts!

That´s twice in one day now Max that you´ve written "Grauniad", no doubt chuckling away to yourself at what a wag you are. Be careful or Private Eye will come knocking for their royalties soon.

I´ve clearly misjudged the concept of this website, thinking it was primarily a meeting place for ex-pats to share ideas and tips, but also a way for those still in the UK considering making the move to get some good information. I see I was mistaken. Apparently you´re only really welcome on the forum if you´ve lost your life savings to an unscrupulous developer on the costas. It seems anyone who is happy here in Spain shouldn´t be, and are mad for not having moved to Cumbria instead.

Max, I read La Razon for national news, Marca for football and Diario de Guadalajara for local news. It´s all part of the assimilation process. 

All well and good, Orinoco, although I have never been ripped of by an unscrupulous developer, and wouldn't dream of returning to the UK unless absolutely necessary - especially not north of the Thames (that's where Cumbria is, isn't it?).

But.....you haven't answered the questions from myself and Sanchez1.  Are you keeping all that juicy IT work to yourselff???  Surely that goes against your Socialist principles?  Share and share alike - ask John Two Jags Prescott.  He's a socialist isn't he?

Also - a double jeopardy for you.  Do the www.voteforpolicies.org.uk test and post your results URL on the forum, and I'll post mine.

...and YES....I have a collectors edition of the Private Eye Bumper Book of Front Covers.  It's GREAT.

I meet hundreds of people every week at my hotel, I have personally known 4 familys/couples/people move back to the greener grass of Blighty, they were all back within 3 months and I have just heard that another couple are also coming back after realising that they had made a huge mistake by thinking that returning to the UK would improve their style of life. 

Everybody tells me that in most parts of the UK people are depressed and miserable (I also see the stressed lined faces arrive here everyday, they relax as the week goes on and then a couple of days before returning to the UK the stress is back!).

I have been back once in 6 years and that was once too many, Spain has its problems and I am sure it will get worse before it gets better but If I have to scrimp and save and be miserable then rather here than in the UK anyway.... I have integrated into the Spanish relaxed way of life and although running our business here can be very demanding, it is nowhere as demanding and stressful as running a business in the UK, it is what you make of your life here that counts.

I meet hundreds of people every week at my hotel, I have personally known 4 familys/couples/people move back to the greener grass of Blighty, they were all back within 3 months

 Well that  speaks volumes! You mean t to say that because say 6/8 people you know came back to the UK , I'm presuming with no job since they returned to Spain so quickly,  proove that Spain is so wonderful. (probably unable to get benefits to fund themselves,  ie. nowhere to live, no income. ) 3 months!!!  They really gave it a go didn't they!  Tell me, why did the want to leave Spain in the first place?

My guess is they had no work over the winter in Spain, went back to the UK , went back to Spain in the hope of summer jobs! Oh and as for people arriving at your hotel looking tired and stressed , (because they work hard at their jobs) then more relaxed after two weeks .. DOH! that's called "A HOLIDAY"  the general idea and the reason we take one in the first place!!

This is a syndrome well recognised amongst Brits when I worked in Saudi.  After a time, you develop a selective memory, exacerbated by watching series such as Morse, of wonderful old pubs with perfectly kept Fuller's London Pride, home made steak and kidney pies, a pub garden with wooden benches and a river lazily running by, swans waddling over the perfectly mown pub lawn, the sun warming your back.........

then......

...then, as you start final approach to Heathrow, and descend through 10,000ft of thick cloud, the horrible realization that you forgot that the weather in Britain is absolutely crapola and not 38ºC every day, that pubs charge 3 GBP a pint, that you will have to earn some money, pay astronomical rent for a shoe box (and 6 months deposit), pay the BBC a tax, even if you never watch it......etc. etc.

I was that person. 

Also...What you are describing is also a symptom of the West in general going into bankruptcy.  One can either bounce around like a pinball or batten down the hatches and learn to live on ship's rations.  Those are the alternatives.  Do what our grandparents did - learn to turn things off when not in use, not waste water, eat in on basic healthy food.  A kg of minced magra (pork) goes a long way with potatoes etc.  Sorry - I sound like Delia.  

It's going to get worse....sorry. 

Roddy, living in Surrey or Cumbria does not equal luxury!!  Get real.

Edited to say, with regards to your question.."Why did they leave the UK in the first place?" Who knows ? Could be for any one of the reasons other ex-pats on here try to convince us of.