Registering as EU citizen

‘’The continuing situation for citizens to abuse both countries seems to be left unresolved! Or perhaps I’m missing something here?’’

Yes you are. There are severe penalties for tax evasion throughout the world, ask Al Capone.  

@johnzx "The difference is that after the transition period, unless an agreement is made which changes things,  Brits will no longer have the right to free travel they have enjoyed for the passed 47 years."

John, first let me say that I hope we are all on the same side: I do not mean in any way to be argumentative.

I am 71 years old. My dad bought a house on the Côte d'Azur (France) around 1950, when I was a child. We used to drive down a few times a year for my entire childhood......right up until today. Sometimes my mother and my siblings would stay for months over the winter. We didn't register for "benefits" and we were just ordinary tourists. We were left alone.....and we had plenty of friends all in the same boat. What I am saying is we Brits have always enjoyed some sort of right to free travel around Europe as long as we pay our own way...before the EU came into being. Travelling and living around Europe is not some 1980s "A Place in the Sun" invention.

I can't see why Spain would want to be bloody minded and chase people away.

Kavanagh,

How can you impose fines when you can't identify the " abusers" given the existing system? Or can you?

Guyt

And those early tourists assisted the local economy whilst enjoying the differing culture and traditions. :):

There wasn't the same feeling of "us and them" back then. Society has changed so much under EU rule and for many it appears that proliferation of abuse and corruption within the system has harboured a downward spiral that is so sad and unnecessary when there are options to find good solutions that could counter the division and distrust....but this so depends upon a willingness to acknowledge the problems and not remain in denial.

Guy. I was not suggesting Spain would be bloody minded, just that I would not be surprised if Brits as Non EU nationals might be treated according to the law, as all other non EU nationals have and are treated.

 I may be wrong. They get special treatment because they are such great guys and everybody loves the Brits !

‘’ How can you impose fines when you can't identify the " abusers" given the existing system? Or can you?’’

Perhaps we should also give in to terrorists.

@johnzx "I would not be surprised if Brits as Non EU nationals might be treated according to the law, as all other non EU nationals have and are treated."

John, you may be right....** EDITED - Against forum rules **

Allowing unemployment to soar to such a degree across Europe without an adequate growth strategy or willingness to adjust  and recognise other failures following the financial crash or willingness to recognise the frustration and potential for inciteful rhetoric is unforgiveable. 
Eastern European citizens are predominately hard working and have been desperate for work. It's not their fault that they found themselves at the behest of a system that failed them so badly, scapegoated other countries and their own in that process, and gave them little option but to leave their homelands in such a swift timeframe and in such large numbers. It’s so sad to witness division like this.

Change and seeking out mutually beneficial agreements has to come surely????

Ads, what you say is correct, but the reality is that when a disaster like the world recession of 2008 occurs, the politicians’ and the establishment who caused it through greed will take care of themselves first and the ordinary citizens will come a long way second.

Kavanagh,

At the end of the day it could equally be argued that such realities depend upon proactive optimistic citizens willing to research, educate and seek out solutions to abuse ( such as the " freeloaders" that Acer made mention of), and gain greater accountability in that process, that thankfully create mutually beneficial change, rather than those with a pessimistic somewhat obstructive mentality. 😏

Back on thread....how can the UK ensure that those who are registering as EU citizens in Spain inform HMRC, and likewise how can Spain ensure that citizens declare tax residency? Is there a solution to this? Will it depend upon a bilateral agreement and exchange of information between Spain and the UK?

You always seem to want to ensure there is a full proof system that is beyond reality. Sorry, it does not work like that outside China.

Please don't exaggerate ( again) Kavanagh....and your solution to freeloaders, who don't inform HMRC or declare Spanish tax residency, is????

This message was last edited by ads on 09/02/2020.

The problem is that TIN GODS (jobs worth’s) in ivory tower offices have invented that many laws and rules that are beyond the man in the street’s comprehension. Even the authorities like the Police and taxman don’t understand them, and this can only lead to citizens and enforcement officers disrespecting said laws and rules.

Perhaps if we went back to ‘’KEEP IT SIMPLE’’ it might work better.

There's not been a response to my question on how the Spanish authorities can hope to regulate us nice Brits and impose the 90 in any 180 day period rule when they don't record our comings and goings. 

Since my post 10 days ago I've been through passport control twice more...and just waved through without any record being made.  Both times it was through MRU, the time before it was Valencia airport where again just waved through. 

Is there any other serious way that the "day count" can be calculated?  I think not.  It obviously against their own interests to do so.  So why do folk keep talking as if it's going to happen?

Acer, you are aware that UK is still in the EU? Flights entering Spain from UK go to a part of the airport with free type movements. If you look around a bit, you'll see flights from outside the EU get herded through a different section of the airport where documentation is more rigidly checked, bags are checked by customs people etc. Travelling inter EU and there are no customs controls, most people are just waved through because of the freedom of movement rules.

After the transition period, you may find flights from UK will go through this different section where passports are stamped, visas (if they every come about) checked, baggage checked and so on. My Russian neighbour has to come through a different part of the airport when he lands at Madrid and has his passport stamped with a "Valid until" date entered onto his passport.

It will probably be the same coming off ferries and Eurostar (I do remember my bags being checked and a little chalk mark put on the case once the Customs bloke in UK had checked I didn't have more than 200 fags or one bottle of booze).

So at the moment the "pass, friend" attitude will still prevail as we still enjoy FoM and no customs checks. None of us know what the procedures, what agreements, what details will be hammered out between now and the end of December but IMHO I reckon the recordings of comings and goings for us Brits will change dramatically. The TIE they reckon us permanent residents will be issued with could possibly see us waved through as normal but a simple passport holder could end up having more stamps in his passport like he used to.  

Although customs controls and allowances will probably apply to us if coming from the UK. Just like it used to.

Anyway, we have once again gone well off the subject despite Ads saying "back on thread". It was simply a question on how to register which was answered on the first page. Then, as usual. veered off into the different branches they all seem to take.

Mariedav,

Thanks for yours.  Perhaps I did not explain my query too well, but the fact that we are now into the transition phase with the EU does not have any relevance.  I am referring to the position of persons who have not taken Spanish residence vis a vis the 90 days in any 180 rule.

You may be right in that after the Brexit deal is concluded there are likely to be changes.  But that is a different aspect.  Having said that, as the Spanish authorities have seemingly failed to monitor the position in the past you have to wonder if they'll even bother after the exit deal is concluded.

Acer.   "Having said that, as the Spanish authorities have seemingly to monitor the position in the past you have to wonder if they'll even bother after the exit deal is concluded."

That is only true for EU nationals.  

Non EU nationals are checked in and out of Spain (Shengen Area). 

My wife is one.  She has resident status in spain. Each time she leaves or enters the Schengen Area her passport is stamped.  Thus one would expect (failing some special agreement ) that will be the same for brits after the transision period, when they will be in the same category as non EU National are now and have always been

Yes, but the point is they are not doing so now and the 90 day rule has been in place for many years.  Hence the question are they really going to monitor non-resident Brits?  It'll be a massive task without any point!

It will be relevant to many.  I'm sure a few have their preferred times of the year and don't necessarily tot-up their allowed days too closely.

Acer "Yes, but the point is they are not doing so now and the 90 day rule has been in place for many years"

After Brexit it will be different.

At present it is 90 days permanently,  with a total of 183 days in a year, so one can come for three months , leave and then return in a week or so and stay another 90 days.

The new rule will be 90 days total in a 180 day period.  So come for three months, cannot return within the next 3 months.    Significantly different.

To complicate matters further, a lot of Brits drive down to Spain from UK via France. Once a Brit car comes off the ferry in France, it is in limbo....perhaps drive to Spain...perhaps stay in France or go to Italy....all with no frontier checks...so it's hard to see how Spain would when you arrived....yesterday....or last month? There will be a stamp in you passport of your arriving in France which might count against when you go back to UK (from a ferry in Spain, France, Holland, etc) ....if you overstay your visit and anyone can be bothered to check.