Registering as EU citizen

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15 Feb 2020 6:14 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Roy.  If one abuses the system then they may have problems.   If you just visit within the rules, I would not think you will have any problems. 





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15 Feb 2020 6:28 PM by royoftherovers Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

John zx, I agree.

 

Kavanagh, I think that you are thinking English perspective again. Can you tell me of a better way of meeting the Spanish requirements ?





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15 Feb 2020 6:42 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Roy perhaps it would be better if you knew Spanish laws and could quote them instead of making up Roy’s rules.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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15 Feb 2020 7:23 PM by royoftherovers Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Kavanagh, You have not answered my question. I am applying common sense and maintaining evidence of my compliance requirements. Now, what would you do ?





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15 Feb 2020 9:10 PM by GuyT Star rating. 511 posts Send private message

A lot of the "proof" spoken about is irrelevant these days. If Spanish, or any other authority, wants to know where your vehicle was on such and such a date, they can easily interrogate camera and internet data bases. 

eg. a few years ago I was pulled over by a French gendarme at a toll booth in France. He greeted me by my first name. He wanted to examine my pickup. Over the course of the next half hour he explained that my pickup had been logged in Berlin, Cardiff, Lisbon, Genoa, etc during the previous year and had triggered an algorithm suggesting I might be a smuggler or illicit courier of some kind. So they keep all sorts of records of every vehicle in the EU.

Now for a more scary one: A year ago I bought five Krugerrands (about £4 500 at the time) from a dealer who is also a friend in UK. He agreed to keep them for me until I was next in UK and would collect them. While driving to UK I overnighted in Orleans and using the wifi at the hotel sent him a one line email "Will collect the gold within next 48 hours, have cash"._

The following day, driving along the motorway I saw this convoy approaching in my rear view mirror with lights flashing. Two police motor cyclists aggressively forced me off the road. Five more cars joined them, gendarmes, police & customs. Male and female agents. Fifteen in total. Again, they addressed me by name and asked if I "had anything to declare". I laughed, they laughed and then they asked "where's the gold or where's the cash?". Cut a long story short, they went through everything..measured my vehicle with gadgets looking for secret panels, etc. It took an hour...they made no secret they were looking either for gold or cash to pay for gold. My email had obviously been scanned and presumably the words gold and cash had triggered an alarm. They had obviously hoped they'd nabbed some big time smuggler.  Real tin foil hat stuff. 

Moral of story: you don't need to keep petrol receipts. If they want to know where and where you were.....they already know, lol.

 





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16 Feb 2020 2:58 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Perhaps extreme documentation could make the authorities suspicious and not be so clever.no



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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16 Feb 2020 3:57 PM by royoftherovers Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Kavanagh, I give up on you. Over and out.





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16 Feb 2020 5:37 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

‘’ We must keep the records not them’’ Who’s told you that?

Why would anyone abiding by the rules go to such extreme measures.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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09 May 2020 3:45 PM by AlanR555 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Interesting collection of ideas and opinions - but questions remain.

Does the 90 days in 180 apply to Spain or to Schengen? If, (as has

been suggested) it applies to Schengen, how is it interpreted by Spain?

Tax residency revolves around 182 days in a calendar year. Are these

days in Spain or days in Schengen? The answer must be days within

Spain to avoid aburdities like permanent French residents being deemed

as tax-resident in Spain but then question is how to ascertain days in

Spain when intra-Schengen trips are not monitored (eg have 185 days

from my entry into Spain until I leave but spent a week in France).

I have been in Spain since 28th January with intention to leave on a

pre-booked flight on 19th March. Cancellation of a ferry on 18th March

prevented me reaching the airport in time for that flight and so I am

still in Spain awaiting resumption of flights back to UK. The latest

proposals re quarantine in UK are likely to delay such resumption

- so that my stay here will extend beyond 182 days. Will the claim

of force majeure exempt me from becoming tax resident? I have

zero income in Spain (all my expenses being funded by transfer

from UK sources) but will Spain attempt to claim tax on UK assets

that are tax-exempt in UK although part of my world-wide income?

 

I have no wish to be tax-resident in Spain (although I am registered

on the Padron) and normally am meticulous on keeping below the

183-day threshold. Would restrictions on travel in Covid-19 situation

be sufficient excuse to avoid liability to complete Modelo-720?





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09 May 2020 5:55 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Alan 

It is 183 days in Spain not Schengen

183 days in a Calendar year:  I have never questioned what that means in law.  However, it might be that as a calendar year in Spain coincides with the tax year, one may be able to spend a total of 182 in say 2019 and then another total of 182 in 2020

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/article/spain-income-tax-rates-and-allowances

Myra Azzopardi  of CAB Spain said yesterday in a broadcast on TRE Radio Europe, that if people are forced by the lockdown to stay  longer than permitted, say over staying a visa period, 90 days, etc. the authorities  will ‘forgive / ignore´ it





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09 May 2020 8:48 PM by AlanR555 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Thank you for these comments.

> It is 183 days in Spain not Schengen.

In view of previous posts in this thread, it seems that monitoring is only of number of days in Schengen

and so the question remains as to how number of days in Spain is ascertained.

> 183 days in a Calendar year: 

Yes. Those entering in July can stay for nearly a year without triggering tax residency - but I arrived

in January and so my 183 days expire well before the end of the calendar year.

> Myra Azzopardi  of CAB Spain said on TRE Radio Europe, that being forced by the lockdown

> to stay longer than permitted will result in the authorities acting to ‘forgive / ignore´ it.

This is good news - but how official is it? Is there a government publication confirming this?





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09 May 2020 9:00 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Alan.  

I suggest you ask CAB.
They USUALLY get it right 





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10 May 2020 1:51 AM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Why are you worrying about this? Unless you declare yourself to be resident in Spain, it's extremely unlikely the tax department is going to pick up on you being here over 183 days (which would take you to nearly the end of July surely, by which time you may well be able to get a flight out anyway)  

Of course, there is the small issue of you being registered on the padron - why is that, if you don't reside here?

 



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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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10 May 2020 2:36 AM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

‘’ This is good news - but how official is it? Is there a government publication confirming this?’’Unlikely, at the moment the government has more important things to publish. However I would think common sense and flexibility would prevail. If you are so concerned why not contact the Spanish immigration and tax office?


This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 11/05/2020.

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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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11 May 2020 11:19 PM by AlanR555 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

> It is extremely unlikely the tax department is going to pick up on you being here over 183 days.

The ways in which official bodies collate bits of information has been one of the themes of this thread.

> 183 days would take you to nearly the end of July surely, by which time you may well be able to

> get a flight out anyway.

I was booked for 2nd May - cancelled on 14th April.

I have now booked for 9th July - no flights in May/June - but this must be uncertain given that UK will

be extending every foreign air holiday by fourteen days (of quarantine). Who will travel under such

conditions? Low demand will reduce viability of "Low Fares Made Simple" airline business model

and so flying may not recommence on 1st July as planned.

> There is the small issue of being registered on the padron - why is that, if you don't reside here?

I have a multi-year rental agreement that started in February 2015 and so do live in Spain with a

permanent address albeit that I spend part of the year elsewhere. From 2017-2019 I was also

resident in Republic of Ireland. I expect soon to gain permanent resident status under the EU

"five year" scheme as I am a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. I registered on the Padron in

2015 as such was the advice when I applied for my NIE. Recently I renewed the registration

as part of the check made approximately every two years

>  I would think that common sense and flexibility would prevail.

I would hope so but official-dom does not always manifest these qualities. That is a

live issue in UK as the Prime Minister is calling for common sense prevail whereas

the police and others are requesting a definitive statement of law in relation to the

exit phases of the "lock-down" in England.

> If you are so concerned why not contact the Spanish immigration and tax office?

Because the mere fact of drawing attention to the situation may lead to an adverse result.

There is an English phrase about the head and the parapet!





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12 May 2020 1:45 AM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

"The ways in which official bodies collate bits of information has been one of the themes of this thread."

You had better hope that following forums such as this isn't one of them, because from what you have said now, I would imagine the Spanish tax office could conclude that you already are a fiscal resident. Nevertheless, I still think it is fairly unlikely they will come knocking on your door, unless you choose to formally register as a tax resident. I guess it's a chance you will have to weigh up.

As a side point, why would the proposed 14 day quarantine (self-isolation actually) be an issue? If it is for some reason, you could simply travel back via France



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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12 May 2020 2:47 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

It is unlikely that genuine honest people from any country in any foreign country will be treated unfairly due to circumstances beyond their control. However tax and residency dodgers are likely to get caught eventually. 



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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