Registering as EU citizen

Guy,

For Spain read Schengen Area

When a non EU national arrives in Schengen Area their `passport is stamped and the clock starts ticking down

So arrive in France, that’s day one of the ninety days in 180.

When they leave the Schengen  Area, the passport will show the number of days spent in the Area.

Many countries operate like that.  If  one overstays a fine is imposed at the port / airport on departure.     

I was told that maybe overstayers in the Schengen Area will be liable to a three year ban on visiting any country in the Area. See below.   Not saying that will happen just that there appears to be a rule to that effect

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/consequences-of-overstaying-in-schengen-area/
This message was last edited by johnzx on 12/02/2020.

Correct johnzx. Countries that need to apply for a visa apply to the country they will spend most time in but the visa is valid throughout the Schengen area. So if you are coming to Spain you apply for a visa to Spain but if driving through France then the time starts when you enter France.

Countries that have visa free travel, like the US, will be allowed to stay for a period of 3 months but the time starts when entering the country of arrival.

So saying, from next year countries who do not require a visa will have to apply for a visa waiver like the ESTA needed to go to or through the USA snd its territories.

Nobody yet knows if a visa will be required from the UK (which I very much doubt) but it is looking likely that the visa waiver will be required. An American ESTA is valid 2 years but only allows visits up to 90 days at any one time and you can't re-enter US territory within 3 months.

We had a neighbour in UK  who owned a holiday home in Florida. He stayed there for 3 months as entitled to. He then wanted to go on a cruise through the Caribbean about a month later but was not allowed to do so as one of the stops was San Juan, a US territory. When he did go, the two days in San juan counted as part of his 3 months next time he went to Florida.

Also pretty sure the same rules will apply to certain EU citizens visiting the UK after next year. Passports will be stamped just the same as they are now for non-EU citizens like Americans. 

Time to start filling up your passport with entry and exit stamps like we used to. 

If in any doubt, read about the ETIAS (European Visa Waiver) at this link.

This states it will be valid for 3 years and you can enter the Schengen area multiple times in that period but I highlight the following:
the European Council said: "EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel."

Thank you GuyT, Johnzx and Mariedav for the informative replies and opinions - all very useful. 

You have to wonder how the Spanish government will interpret the EU rules when negotiations are finalised.  Presumably they will have a loud voice on the subject.  Also if the 17 autonomous will all have the same longer term stance, they have very different interests!

I am sure when the new rules come into force Brits will be diligently monitored how much time they spend in Spain. The Spanish government would never want foreigners overstaying and doing a Viv Nicholson spend, spend, spend in Spain, or would they?

Amazing how they've been doing it for other non-EU citizens for all these years. Both those who visit and those who have become permanent residents here. 

You need to be financially realistic, Spain will always welcome anyone, EU or NON EU with wealth and money to seriously buy property or invest. Short term tourist Brits with a few quid in their pocket are tolerated, but perhaps not forever.

I think is involves more than just nipping in to a office and registering...I have it in good faith that you need to be financially secure in Spain apparently you need a income of ... approximately €7,000 per person for the next 5 year's before being considered.. apparently the Spanish government are going to raise this amount this year ..I am not to sure by how much...if you are under UK pension age you will also need private health care in place to cover you for the first year ..after this you can pay directly into the Spanish NHS system at the moment this is around €80 per person per month ...if you are of UK pension age you can go straight on the Spanish NHS system during the transition period .. apparently after the transition period the UK government will no longer fund your free health care in Spain.if you decide to move to Spain after the 31 .01.21.so I have read.

Quite right windtalker

An EU national wishing to live in Spain must prove sufficient income, or savings/assets, and full medical cover.

For a worker those conditions are met by being employed or self-employed.

For a person who is not working they need to prove an income or savings of around 5,200 euros p.a. for a single person or around 8,900€ p.a. income  or savings for a couple.  The values of assets, for example a savings or  property, can be used to meet the assets requirement..  That includes partners of both same sex or heterosexual relationships. 

UK nationals with an exportable government paid benefit (including OAP) can get medical cover via an S1 form, issued by DWP., which then pays a flat fee per year for each person, Including dependants, of around  £4,200 p.a. for those over 65,; £800 under 65; £600 under 18 years old. Those do not qualify under that need to take out private medical nsurance which provides 100% cover.

Non  EU nationals, who are not taking up family unification with a person already living in Spain,  need to either prove employment or sufficient income.  The  amounts are around 25,000€ p.a. for a single person and 27,000€ for a couple,  and full medical cover. That applies equally to retired people-

IF after Brexit UK nationals do not get a special deal, then as  Non EU nationals, they will be subjected to the rules as above.

Hello John

Will all that apply to new Brit residents arriving after 31.01.21.

Windy said:-

‘’apparently after the transition period the UK government will no longer fund your free health care in Spain.if you decide to move to Spain after the 31 .01.21.so I have read.’’

"Time to start filling up your passport with entry and exit stamps like we used to". But the good news, everyone, is they'll be good 'ole traditional dark blue passports - you know, the ones the EU never told us we couldn't have. 

The income requirements for non-EU nationals wishing to apply for residency raises an interesting question for all those ardent followers of Bargain Loving Brits in the Sun / New Life in the Sun etc. How easy / difficult will it be for Brits to buy (own & run) crappy little bars on the Costas in the future? Many of them probably don't even turn over 27K.

you know, the ones the EU never told us we couldn't have. 

Keep lt quite but that was never a regulation as the Croatians know,  theirs are blue.

difficult will it be for Brits to buy (own & run) crappy little bars on the Costas in the future? Many of them probably don't even turn over 27K.

I wonder if that is why almost none are run by non EU nationals. 

I still wonder how the UK Govt can keep a handle on citizens registering in Spain if they subsequently don't inform HMRC of stays over 183 days, or for that matter on how the Spanish tax office are going to keep a handle on tax residency for stays over 183 days in this regard ....any ideas?

Ads, I'm not entirely sure I understand your question. To go back to your original one: "how can the UK ensure that those who are registering as EU citizens in Spain inform HMRC" -  why would the UK need to ensure they notify HMRC? If you leave the UK, and have no taxable income in the UK anymore, there's no need to declare anything surely? 

"and likewise how can Spain ensure that citizens declare tax residency?"  You don't have to actually declare yourself tax resident to be considered tax resident by Spain (although obviously you are supposed to). The tax department are known to cross-check things such as padrón registration, and even to look at utility bills of foreign property owners who aren't declaring lettings income, to judge by occupancy rates whether or not the owners may be living there.  As in the UK, Spain operates a self-assessment system, and if the authorities believe that someone is avoiding their tax obligations, they could face the full force of the law.

If the point of your question is to ask how (or whether) Spain will ensure that anyone who spends 184 days a year in their holiday villa declares themselves tax residents and subsequently files their returns and pay their taxes etc. etc., I think we all know the practical answer to that one  

"Will it depend upon a bilateral agreement and exchange of information between Spain and the UK?" I'm quite sure that even post-Brexit, the UK will continue to exchange information with EU and non-EU countries in the fight against tax avoidance. 

Why waste all these efforts on dodgy voluntary taxation, just stick to PAYE, VAT, FUEL, ALCHOL AND TOBACCO TAX.

This appeared quite an informative article dated November 2019 

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/expat-tax-advice/tax-in-spain-for-expats/

Wether documentation is stamped or not, the onus will be on US to PROVE we are not staying longer than is allowed.

Roy if you intended USA ok

In spain if the authorities say you have been here for a period of time,  are taxable here, owe money here, etc then you will need to prove otherwise 

‘’Wether documentation is stamped or not, the onus will be on US to PROVE we are not staying longer than is allowed.’’

So it’s guilty until you prove yourself innocent. What Spanish law says that?

It is a mistake to view Spanish requirements from an English perspective.

If they require US to satisfy THEM then we must.

We must keep the records not them.Quite simple and rather clever really.

I drive to and from Spain twice each year, so if I keep records of

Buying fuel in UK ON MY DAY OF LEAVING and Channel Tunnel crossing and 

Hotel accommodation, food purchases, fuel purchased etc and keep records of my return to UK,I can easily satisfy the Spanish authorities should they accuse me of staying too long.

It is not Rocket Science but is clearly a pain in the Bum !

Let`s hope that UK negotiators can perpetuate the current arrangement of 6 months in a calendar year.

You can do whatever pleases you, but please do not dictate to others.

‘’We must keep the records not them. Quite simple and rather clever really.’’ What Spanish law says that?