Property auction .Bids start from €100

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16 Dec 2017 17:37 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 772 posts Send private message

Countdown time in Camposol. First lote of 100 properties available to be viewed between 26-28 December.

Am crossing everything that Bob and Pat Smith, whose property is listed in this lote, can secure their home for the minimum bid of €100 because surely no-one would be nasty enough to want to make this couple homeless from a house the courts deemed they legally owned.

 





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16 Dec 2017 19:05 by windtalker Star rating. 1708 posts Send private message

The only thing you will get on Camposol for €100 is a one way taxi to Alicante and this is a lift from Tony down the pub. ....I think you will find that the auction catalog states the minimum starting price ... with minimum bids of €100 ...the liquidation company will not accept less than the guide price in the catalogue.





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16 Dec 2017 20:14 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Sorry but life’s not fair.    The system and lack of professionalism has let them down.  

 



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16 Dec 2017 20:49 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 772 posts Send private message

You may be correct but that wasn't the  way I read it Windtalker. Although obviously creditors expect far more. 

"Two large blocks of properties split into lots of 100 properties each are now being advertised on the state auction site, and with minimum bids of €100 each social media sites have been in overdrive the last week as a succession of unfamiliar cars containing people clutching clipboards, i-phones, cameras, maps, sat-navs and pieces of paper have swarmed onto the urbanisation, navigating the maze of poorly numbered properties in an attempt to identify the potential bargains"

Murcia news also mentions the tourist licence being for ALL the 12 months of the year !! But as the  wording on the escritura  hasn't yet been questioned by those in authority the assumption is it can be ignored.

What a nightmare....

How is the  cruise Windtalker?

 





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17 Dec 2017 07:40 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

They're likely to sell for 50% or so of their current market value if they follow the current trend.  I while ago there was a similar auction involving properties on Mazarron Country Club.  A wealthy Dutch guy bought a large number and now rents them out as holiday lets - seems to be doing very nicely thankyou.

But those were the normal auction situation, probably the Bob & Patricia factor will have an affect of these Camposol properties.  I'm not sure many would want to be involved - you wouldn't be too popular with the neighbours.



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17 Dec 2017 09:30 by windtalker Star rating. 1708 posts Send private message

Floella cruise was great..not a world cruise but the Balearic islands is just as good in my books...what you will find is that all of these properties are sold empty ...and don't kid yourself people don't care about the background of the Repo that has gone to auction ...all these buyers are interested in is a bargain  ..some of the properties on offer are direct from Masa Builders they are unfinished and will need a considerable amount of money spent on them to make them habitable.. The other properties that are up for sale have had people live in them at some time or another ..and are in very good condition  requiring. only a small amount of money spent on them to make Them habitable.. the majority of the Repo's ..are simply Turistic on the deeds ...having Turistic on the deeds does not prevent you from living in the property full time ...some of these Turistic properties like the one next to me  that was sold at auction 3 months back  had been live in for 6 year's ..it had been empty for at least 5 years prior to being auctioned ...the people that lived in it ...simply decided Spain was not for them.... and through the key's back at Masa and then jumped on the mis sold Turistic thing ...and tried to get all their money back ...these people have been told by the Residents association to pick up their deeds as Masa had gone bust owing many many millions ... and as they had not paid for the property in full and had no Escutura ..the liquidator would sell the properties as Masa assets ..This sort of thing happens every day in business.


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 17/12/2017.



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17 Dec 2017 12:07 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

I’m assuming the properties being sold at the auction are all 'turistico' licences? (Even when they have been finished).     The articles I have seen are concentrating on this as being the reason they are being sold. 

So if Bob and Pat secured their property for 100 euros (dreamland?), they would still have only a tourist licence, so what would change for them going forward?



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17 Dec 2017 12:08 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Were bank guarantees provided to the original offplan purchasers from the outset ( as required by law) ?

Were purchasers rights and  deposited monies adequately protected at point of purchase? ( as required by law) ?

Was the touristic status identified at point of offplan purchase or was it retrospectively changed without their knowledge? 

Were all utilities and legal licences in place at point of transfer?

Have all these properties now up for auction attained fully legal status with full planning approval and been officially registered?

Will new owners be in possession of properties deemed to be "illegal" in the eyes of the law?

What outstanding debts exist on these properties and who are the existing financial entities that are currently putting the properties up for auction?

Have there been any illegal transfers associated with these properties that might place new owners at risk going forward?

What legal obligations and outstanding debts will new purchasers acquire at point of transfer?

Are these properties in legal limbo in the eyes of the local or regional authorities and will new owners be responsible for funding outstanding infrastructures, installation of utilities etc?

Will the new owners be at risk from future legal challenges with regard to renting out and living in their properties?

Has touristic status been  legally approved on these properties being auctioned?

Is there any official record of original owners that can establish any outstanding legal claim on these properties?

Can outstanding legal claims and enforcements on any property prevent subsequent auction of that property until such time as these debts are paid?

So many questions going forward....

 

 

 





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17 Dec 2017 12:38 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

As I as I understand it Ads, the licences were changed in the town hall after contracts exchanged, which resulted in legal challenges that cancelled contracts, and ownership of the properties was then returned to the developer who subsequently went bust.

The liquidators auction the properties off on behalf of the creditors, I assume the preferred creditors are the banks and financial institutions.  

So the lawyers recommended a course of action that didn’t include the 57/68 option?   If so I would view that as professionally incompetent advice, in my opinion anyway.  

So also, are the contracts in the auction available for inspection, ownership, services, quality of build and completion inspection, town hall enquiries made......etc. Etc as in the UK (where a sales pack has to be available for an auction).

Or is the auction just another chapter in a Wild West approach to selling houses in Spain?    If so, then even 100 euros is expensive. 



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Best wishes, Brian

 




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17 Dec 2017 13:01 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 772 posts Send private message

Ads I think the answers to ALL your legit questions would be in the negative because in reality the only reason for these 2 auctions is to get money for the main creditors who thereafter won't give a damn as to legalities. 





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17 Dec 2017 13:09 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

So many questions, ads, presumably rhetorical? And having read the previously referred to article from Murcia news (or half of it anyway - I lost the will to live half way through), I have to say I agree with Brian - you'd have to hit me over the head with a brick (of which I presume there are plenty unused lying around Camposol) to get me to part with €100 for a share in such a shambles. In fact, you'd have to pay me far more than 50% of the market value (do these properties really have a market, let alone a value?) just to bother trying to get to the bottom of so much confusion. And yet....the article stresses that the majority of owners there are very happy with their purchase. My mind is boggled :-)

 


This message was last edited by Roberto on 17/12/2017.

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17 Dec 2017 13:25 by windtalker Star rating. 1708 posts Send private message

The properties that are up for auction ..are not all Turistic only a small percentage ..and they are all sold with no outstanding dept complete with the Escutura ...this is clearly stated in the bill of sale..so basically all you have to do is arrange for a water meter approximately €350.00 and a electric meter approximately €500.00 both these procedure will take around 1 month for connection...the poster's on hear don't seem to understand that in the eyes of the law Masa owns these properties as they have not been paid for in full ...if the original buyer's want their 75% that they paid to Masa they will have to stand in line with the other claimants against a LTD company ...as far as bank guarantees are consernd if any bank intended paying out on any property up for auction ...they would have stopped the auction ...as they would require the property back on exchange of monies returned under the bank guarantee ..another thing you have got to remember is THIS IS SPAIN..… it may look like I am insensitive and don't care ...but as I have been running 2 businesses for the last 30 year's ..I have seen this sort of thing happen over and over again ...for instance if any  Masa had any money the first person in line that gets a full refund is the Spanish Tax man ..all the other claimants are only in titled to 10 cent's in the Euro that is what a LTD company is liable for in law ...usually you will get nothing believe me .





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17 Dec 2017 14:58 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 992 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

‘’The properties that are up for auction ..are not all Turistic only a small percentage and they are all sold with no outstanding dept complete with the Escutura this is clearly stated in the bill of sale’’

Given the corruption and fiasco of all this, can you actually believe a word that comes out of their mouths?.

 


This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 17/12/2017.

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17 Dec 2017 17:38 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Sorry windtalker.   I understand what your saying but it’s too much like assumption and guesswork.   

Theres been one contract in the development for these unfortunate people, breached and cancelled.   A new contract will be made up at the point of sale now from the liquidator who represents the creditors interests, not the buyers.  

The bank who originally had responsibility for guarantee under 57/68 could perhaps still be sued. 

The lawyer representing at least one of the prior owners could be sued for incompetent work leading to the contract being cancelled?   

I would ask the owners on camposal to check their paperwork thoroughly and put up warning signs for anyone thinking of bidding to beware of free lunches, they don’t exist.  



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17 Dec 2017 18:13 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

I forget where I saw it - possibly Murcia Today, but the current occupants (possibly Bob & Patricia, but there are others in the same predicament) have already put up large placards outside their properties saying they're not moving and won't be evicted.  Probably wishful thinking.

Clearly they've been poorly advised and I disagree Windtaker, we should feel sorry for them.  Not everyone is streetwise - yes, they have been far too trusting.  Not unreasonably they assume that we are living in a civilised society.

I wonder about the Notary's role in all of this, presumably they were equally unaware of the "turistico" limitation.  But given that a sale has to be transacted through a notary to see fair play etc surely the court should appoint the same notary to protect the individual and oversee the undoing of the sale to avoid this situation?



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17 Dec 2017 18:47 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Ok here's some questions for Maria. ;)

If the contract was cancelled without being able to  gain actual enforcement of successful ruling achieved  against the developer prior to their insolvency ( due to illegal transfer of assets/ shares to a sister company), what are your rights  going forward if the bank who financed the development ( or the liquidators on behalf of the Bank) try to auction one of those sister company's developer assets, if the bank were legally liable for safeguarding the original deposited monies and issuance of BG? 

Would the claimant have the legal right to stop the auction and stake a claim on the identified asset to be auctioned, as part of the outstanding enforcement process, especially if the judge allowed the claimant to remain in the "asset" in the interim period to act as some form of enforcement "guarantee"?


This message was last edited by ads on 17/12/2017.



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17 Dec 2017 19:06 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

That’s one of the issues I was referring to Ads.   

The purchasers of San Jose for example, had their contracts cancelled in the liquidation courts, but María and others have successfully sued the banks, after cancellation of contract, under 57/68.   

So the very people selling the properties as creditors, may themselves be liable to be sued?     



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18 Dec 2017 10:14 by windtalker Star rating. 1708 posts Send private message

Some people are under the impression that you cannot live in a Property that has a Touristic license.... having a property that has a Touristic license allows you to leagaly let you Property to holiday makers ...if you do not have a Touristic license in place  you cannot let your property to holiday makers the Touristic license is very difficult to get in some areas ...if you do not want to rent your property out to holiday makers ...having a Touristic license on the property doe's not stop you living in the property full time yourself ...all these people on Camposol that are trying to get their money back because it says touristic on the escutura have been living in the touristic property full time ...some for over 10 years so what is the problem.





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18 Dec 2017 11:22 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

The problem seems to be.      

The touristic licence was something the planning office at the town hall had to enforce, because its purpose is to class the property as a commercial property and help keep the cost of housing lower, for locals.  

The housing in this case was sold as domestic, then changed to touristic after it was sold.    

The people buying it simply wanted what they were told they were buying.   



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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18 Dec 2017 12:42 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

Disregarding all, or any legal problems that are arising on Camposol, and forget the starting price of 100€, (Everything has to start at a price) is it wise to buy anything on Camposol due to the problems it has had, past and present, you might well buy in one part thats never had much of a problem, but when we are speaking in general about property in Spain it doesn't take long for 'Camposol' to crop up, seems to me that this mud is going to stick for many years to come.

I know as many have said property is still selling well, maybe at a reduced price, maybe the correct price, or is this just another case of a  'Fool and his Money are easily parted'  or do folk really believe,  and banking on it,  that the house they bought for a song is going to rise considerably in price considering all the adverse bad publicity this place is still getting.





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