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Soy... un hombre

Vivo en... Torremolinos

Me gusta... Anything that doesn't involve community issues

Trabajo de... Presidente de la Comunidad

Mi firma en el foro es...


"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

Mark Twain




Roberto's latest forum comments

03 Dec 2019 03:07:

mariedav: "Can't see as how (SUMA) would be applicable to the OP". It isn't, but it's amazing how many people seem to think SUMA is some sort of national institution!

Despair2, referring back to your earlier post in which you said "I am aware of both IAG and Santander notes and indeed both Spanish Tax Forms and Gesmingot both of whom have stopped trying to file claims for UK citizens ..and no one else does it " - having looked at both of those sources myself now it's clear that you are not alone in this situation and that the way to reclaim witholding tax above the 10% stipulated in the double taxation treaty is indeed to file a 210. Frustratingly for you, I can also see that neither of those sources suggest how one should go about doing so yourself, other than by employing the services of an agent such as they recommend. I believe there are plenty of other agencies that would be able to do this for you, but their charges would far outweigh the amount you say you are due back, thus negating the whole point of the exercise. Again, I can understand your frustration, and that you feel it should be a simple matter for you to manage without the expensive services of a professional - but as a Spanish speaking resident of Spain for 20+ years, my personal opinion is that you are highly unlikely to achieve what you hope for. The best I can suggest is that you print off a copy of form 210 and complete it as best you can (perhaps with the help of some patient folks here who have filed 210s themselves - I haven't as I am a resident) and then post it off to Spain and hope for the best. 


Thread: Can someone help me please with a witholding tax reclaim via 210

02 Dec 2019 01:08:

Sorry to hear you're in a loss position. Know the feeling :-(

I'm not sure HMRC are responsible for the Spanish authority's actions.

I wonder if the Spanish embassy understood (or cared) about your dilemna?

The website is secure (https). Maybe your antivirus is preventing you accessing it for some reason.

Thread: Can someone help me please with a witholding tax reclaim via 210

01 Dec 2019 23:49:

Like I said, you probably know more about this topic than anyone else here is likely to - but the page I found shows the rate of 19% applicable from 2016 onwards.

The page I'm looking at is here. Unlike many official Spanish websites which are outdated and "not secure", this one appears to be fine. I have no idea why you are having difficulty accessing it. (I've checked it in Chrome, FF & MS Edge)

As for the double taxation treaty and reclaiming any excess withholding tax, again, you obviously know far more about this than I do, but I still am curious to know from whom you received your information. Did HMRC advise you to apply for an NIE?

If you are considering selling the shares, I wonder why Brexit is making you delay? When / if it ever happens, as a subsequent  non-EU citizen, you could well find yourself treated even more unfairly by the Spansih authorities. For a start, if they decide that any capital gains tax is due on the sale, they will almost certainly apply a higher rate than if you were still an EU citizen. I think if it was me, I'd want to shift them sooner rather than later. Just a thought?

And just my personal opinion, but I think you're very sensible not wanting to own property in Spain. They certainly don't tell you the whole story on A Place in the Sun!

(Sorry I can't be of more practical help)


Thread: Can someone help me please with a witholding tax reclaim via 210

01 Dec 2019 20:58:

I think angeleyes1 may have a point: unless there happens to be another non-resident forum member who receives dividends from Spanish shares, the chances are you already know more about this subject than anyone else here.

Are you sure your first statement, for example, "Spain has deducted 19.5% witholding tax....when its supposed to only be 10%", is correct? Where does this information come from? I just did a quick search on the Spanish tax office website (I'm currently in the UK, no problem accessing it at all, so maybe you need to look at your security settings), and it would appear to me that dividends should be taxed at 19%. I confess to knowing virtually nothing about double taxation treaties, but my understanding is that they are designed to avoid you paying tax twice on the same income. So unless HMRC are taxing you as well on your dividends, I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. 

On the second part of your original post, who exactly is telling you that you have to travel to London and obtain an NIE & digital certificate? And why?

Finally, and at the risk of being accused of being sarcastic, which is not my intention - have you considered simply selling these shares and reinvesting in UK shares or funds? I appreciate that may be an inconvenience (and unwanted expense), but it may be easier than negotiating Spanish bureaucracy.

Thread: Can someone help me please with a witholding tax reclaim via 210

25 Sep 2019 17:22:

John, I actually said she may "possibly" have to pay imputed income tax on her UK property, because I'm not 100% sure (since I don't own a property outside Spain), and thought you might like to add your thoughts since you are evidently better qualified on this point. I thought perhaps you had misunderstood, since your extract from SPI does not actually cover any of Karen's circumstances and seems therefore strangely irrelevant here.

Never mind.

Karen, since you kindly clarified your situation a little, I have had a couple more thoughts on the subject which I hope may be helpful - although I stand by my original suggestion that you seek professional advice, because things could become complicated.

Firstly: Although Hubby works in the UK, and if you factor in the few days he stops at the home in the UK, most likely spends less than 183 days in Spain per year, I believe this will be seen as irrelevant by the Spanish authorities, for the simple reason his wife's, and therefore by default his own main residence is in Spain.

On this basis, he will be deemed tax resident in Spain and will have to file tax returns and pay income tax in Spain, as well as declare all assets outside Spain worth more than €50k (the UK house presumably, and any other savings, shares etc.) on form 720. I honestly have no idea whether he would have to continue paying tax in the UK and claim it back via the double taxation treaty, or if he could apply for an exemption from HMRC and request that his employer pays him gross (no tax deducted). Perhaps he is self employed. As for social security, it probably gets even more complicated, and I really don't know enough about this to advise - you're getting into the realms of cross-border workers, which you can read more about here. You might need to consider things such as National Insurance contributions and future pension rights as well. And of course, a lot of this very much depends on the outcome of.....


You asked if you would qualify for residency if not in Spain when & if Brexit happens or if you would need to be already living back in Spain? Fairly obvious I think that you have to be living in Spain to qualify for residency. At the very least, you need an address!

If we crash out with no deal, all bets are off. Either way though, it may be that the only way you can obtain permanent residency rights in Spain is by claiming you have been living here all along - which you could probably get away with because (you say) you never cancelled your residency registration when you left. However: this could potentially open a can of worms, since you were almost certainly (in Spain's eyes) tax residents previously - and ever since as well! (I notice that you didn't actually say that your husband also had residency when you previously lived here, so forgive me if I've got any of this wrong)

Of course, you could do nothing, and live here "under the radar", as some would see it - which it seems like you were doing previously to a certain extent. Presumably though there was a reason you applied for residency status first time round? If, for example, you hope to be able to register for healthcare on the social security system, you would have to be registered as a resident. 

I could go on, but I fear I may be rambling a bit, and no doubt others will disagree with some things I've said, so I'll leave it at that, and wish you best of luck and hope that you can get some good sound professional advice when you come over in November.




This message was last edited by Roberto on 25/09/2019.
Thread: Returning after 6 years in UK


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