Is the EU responsible for Brexit chaos

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16 May 2019 10:40 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

Yes you do because you have failed to capitalise on that win for three years and I am satisfied to have a stalemate for another forty





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16 May 2019 10:55 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Javi 17 million from a population of nearly 47 million eligible voters is not a majority. Incidentally contrary to what you seem to believe I actually have a very nice life thank you very much. This forum is a mere personal distraction.

Perry - If I can keep Customs Union, Single Market and get a final say via a new referendum on the deal then I am prepared to leave.  Otherwise, I am happy to remain and negotiations can continue from within the EU for as long as you like. 

An excellent outcome Perry. The numbers in parliament do lean towards that conclusion. Yet they seem unable or unwilling to get it across the line. The rabid leavers who seek a no deal are a small minority so logic dictates they should be defeated. I believe a final say second plebiscite is the only way the situation can be resolved in the long run with public consent.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 12:11 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

There is probably only 10% hardcore remainders and 10% hardcore leavers, 80% of the population don’t really give a toss anymore and are more interested in the next episode of Coronation Street. That 80% are so sick of the whole thing that they would and will vote in anyone who they believe can bring it all to an end, any end will do.



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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 12:36 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

Just remember whatt your dictatorship said perry and minky, "You cannot cherry pick, it is not an a la carte menu"

"Javi 17 million from a population of nearly 47 million eligible voters is not a majority"  - I wish you would get your facts right Minky. 47 million did not vote in any election, that is the total electorate, the turnout for the last one was 69% which means that 17 million is a majority. BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

 





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16 May 2019 12:57 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1112 posts Send private message

Jarvi

BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

The nastiness and made up bits by the Leavers yet again. How do you mean "subsidised by the UK Taxpayers?" Haven't they already paid their NI and taxes and would be having the same life in UK "subsidised"? 

My husband and I, for example, still pay lots of tax into the UK on our pensions which we worked hard for, in my husband's case over 40 years of paying taxes and NI plus still paying taxes. I worked for 35 years in the NHS and, again, paid my dues.

Anyway, hope you are enjoying your life subsidised by the UK taxpayer. And, if you are of a certain age, getting your free bus passes, your winter fuel allowance and being able to get pension tax credits. Things those of us who live in Spain can't do.

But keep making things up. 

And, no, I won't be lectured by a bunch of people who protest their intelligence yet still haven't learned the difference between lose and loose.

 





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16 May 2019 13:11 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

mariedav

Can you point out where I referred to you and your husband specifically? "Haven't they already paid their NI and taxes and would be having the same life in UK "subsidised"? Who is they? Are you saying every single ex pat has paid 40 years worth of tax?  As for your comments re bus passes etc I get none of them, but it seems the nastiness that you say leavers are responsible seems to fit you entirely. If people want to leave the UK forever that is their choice but they should not dictate to the rest of us how we should live.





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16 May 2019 14:02 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Javi -47 million did not vote in any election, that is the total electorate, the turnout for the last one was 69% which means that 17 million is a majority. BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

That is not the point I was making. Some people abstain from voting or cannot be bothered. However, they are still part of the electorate and have a view they just don't express it. So you cannot claim 17 million is a majority opinion.

You have no idea of my financial circumstances and I would appreciate if you would kindly cease personalising the thread.

 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 14:54 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Surely you cannot include the can’t be bothered and excluded people.

Next Prime Minister

Nigel Farage 2/1

Boris Johnson 3/1

Jeremy Corbyn 6/1

Dominic Raab 8/1

Michael Gove 8/1

Jeremy Hunt 12/1

Andrea Leadsom 20/1



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 15:13 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1112 posts Send private message

Now, Jarvi, you have me intrigued. You say a life being subsidised by taxpayers but don't explain how they are being subsidised. You then say you aren't talking of anyone so, the intriguing bit, were you just having a pop at mickey and perry? In which case, how do you know their circumstances?

It sounded a lot like you were having a go at all those who have come to Spain to live, even falling into the mind set (common nowadays) that people who "leave UK forever" have no say in their home country even though it will affect them as much, if not more, than those who haven't. Those of us who pay taxes there, have families there and so on.

So, to clear up a point, who are these people living a life subsidised by the UK taxpayer? And if they were living in UK, wouldn't they be getting subsidised even more? 
 

Finally, as all these discussion seem to get into slagging matches among people who can't understand someone else's point of view, who exactly is telling you how to live your life? 





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16 May 2019 15:16 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

Minky, Where does it state in my post that I claim 17 million is a majority opinion? You yourself said "The support he seems to currently have come from they that voted leave.in the referendum", so that would be 17.4 million to be precise. As for being personal I quote "Incidentally contrary to what you seem to believe I actually have a very nice life thank you very much", so it was you initially who brought your personal circumstances into it, not me.





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16 May 2019 15:20 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

The UK pays more into the EU than it receives back therefore it is subsidising other countries and as such the people who live there - simple arithmetic.  





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16 May 2019 15:23 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

Simple arithmetic, if Nigel gets less than 17.4 million votes it means taht Leave has lost ground, right?





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16 May 2019 16:37 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

If you say so it must be right





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16 May 2019 17:35 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

As for being personal and insulting one and other, this is a BREXIT thread and that is what it always turns into. I find it quite nostalgic like the days of ‘’Watch with Mother’’.

There is never anything new to say, we’ve all heard it all before, so let’s have a nice personal slagging match that the paying advertisers enjoy and any potential new members the advertisers are looking for think I am not joining EYE OF INSULT ONE ANOTHER.



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 18:57 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 975 posts Send private message

 "It's interesting some posters focus here only on one party"

Now Micky, that really is calling the kettle black when the whole thread of the argument goes back to you saying it was all the ERG's fault that Mrs Mays deal was not passed by parliament. And the refutation did not just mention one party it mentioned the Ulster Unionists as well as the ERG and Labour.

Agreed the Euro elections are probably a waste of time and money (but perhaps not, if we do not leave) but it has been shown in the past that when many of the electorate change the habits of a lifetime many of them continue to change their voting pattern. I'm sure this worries both the two main parties.

And - I'm all for strong language about duplicitous MP's (not the sort of stuff that passes on social media these days) but let's be nice to each other.

 


This message was last edited by tteedd on 16/05/2019.



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16 May 2019 19:14 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 975 posts Send private message

Since only 15 point something million voters turned out for the last EU election, Half of 17.4M  for one new party would be more than significant.

God I'm really looking forward to election night. If they are wasting all that money we might as well enjoy it!





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16 May 2019 19:58 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

On the opposition benches, there remains no incentive to prop up a deeply unpopular deal and a deeply unpopular government. Even Brexiteer Labour MPs (or the much larger group of Labour MPs in Leave-voting constituencies) recognise that the deal satisfies very few people and that there is no political capital to be had in supporting it. 

Meanwhile, supporters of a second referendum have their tails up and now see a straight revoke/no-deal vote as the most likely outcome. 

The withdrawal agreement bill is friendless amongst the UK's new purist and populist politics.

Source - The Times Brexit briefing.

The best prediction appears to be May gone by end of June. Johnson in and no deal thereafter. How that squares with the legislation that prevents a no deal is a mystery. The markets seem to believe it's a viable risk and Sterling has tumbled yet again. 

 

 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 20:23 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

"More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation, despite support for the bloc hitting heights not recorded in more than a quarter of a century. - The Guardian yesterday. Bring it on the sooner the better..





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16 May 2019 21:19 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

The EU will collapse within 5 years. France and Germany will be out within 2 years. Greece will be the loyalist member. This will solve BREXIT because we won’t have anything to leave.



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 22:23 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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The EU will go from strength to strength 





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