Is the EU responsible for Brexit chaos

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15 May 2019 10:50 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1042 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

' Money for old rope, don't have to work hard, can still do my day job, get paid just over £7,600 a year plus many other perks'.

At least he was honest, that’s more than most.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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15 May 2019 16:37 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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The referendum only said leave or remain.  If we voted remain we knew what the deal was.  If we voted leave, and we did, the argument goes that it meant leave.  No deal or form of deal was a condition of that vote.  If we leave with a customs union and in the single market many people, possibly a majority will be very happy indeed.

I do not understand why Nigel Farage who has been labelled a liar is even being considered a person to vote for in the EU Elections.  He does not like the EU, he refuses to discuss his policies and he completely does not understand about Article 24 of the WTO.  It is the Red Bus, and Turkey all over again.

I would prefer to see people that will fight on behalf of the UK to improve the EU be voted in even if temporary.





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15 May 2019 16:48 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

" If we voted remain we knew what the deal was". No you didn't. You have no idea what the EU has planned for the next 10 years, unless of course you have a crystal ball or are the President of the EU. There was no condition to the leave vote - Project fear part 1 told us we would leave inc ECJ, Customs union and Single Market. The only people happy with a deal are the remain brigade as it gives them hope of staying in their beloved dictatorship. Is the red bus and Turkey the same as the hundreds of thousands of job losses, recession, armeggedon etc predicted to happen immediately after the vote should leave win? 





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15 May 2019 17:20 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1042 posts Send private message

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Yes leave meant leave, or at least that’s what many people thought it meant. But to now insist on a deal that includes this that and everything is that the leave many voted for? Or is it leave but remain? The whole thing seems to have turned into a confusing shambles that certainly suits the bad looser remainers.

I suppose it’s only politicians that could get the population into such a mess that they don’t actually know what they have voted for.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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15 May 2019 19:17 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

It's is not a confusing shambles Kavanagh. A referendum is one thing parliamentary sovereignty quite another. The voters understandably perhaps feel aggrieved to realise it was only, in theory at least a recommendation to government. Despite that legal reality, the government is trying it's best to implement the decision since its politically considered an obligation so to do.

Parliament is the supreme decision maker of the British democratic system. Indeed the Supreme Court confirmed recently that the final choice on how or if the UK exits the EU must lie through a parliamentary vote. In legal terms, Britain remains an EU member until that voting decision is made. Or it votes to leave without any deal but since that is now legally blocked its unlikely.

In purely legal terms, it matters not what the public thought they were voting for. Politically, of course, it is another matter. Whichever side of this debate you happen to stand on one thing is clear. The route to leaving the EU is only through parliamentary consent. There is no other viable choice.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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15 May 2019 19:34 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

"Despite that legal reality, the government is trying it's best to implement the decision since its politically considered an obligation so to do". The problem is that they are doing their best to thwart Brexit, not implement it. They know what Brexit meant in reality, they told us enough times BEFORE the referendum. Parliament may be the supreme decision maker but very soon the traitors and liars within who said they would rspect the result (but didn't), and would support the country (they didn't) will be ousted and the will of the majority WILL be implemented. They should not be pandering to the 48%, they lost. in a general election one side wins and another loses, the winner does not then try to implement  parts of the mandate of the losing side, it SHOULD implement the mandate on which it was elected.





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15 May 2019 19:57 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I assume Javi in your post you are referring to those MP's who are blocking the exit deal being approved.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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15 May 2019 21:03 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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Sore winners.

You will not be getting anywhere near what you dreamt of and will be lucky if Brexit rather than Brino goes ahead





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15 May 2019 21:33 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

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Yes parliament might be the supreme decision maker while in power, but the electorate is the supreme decision maker of who is in power. Welcome Nigel. Sore losers.



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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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15 May 2019 22:12 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 975 posts Send private message

''Those MPs who are blocking the exit deal''

We  have been round this loop Micky - there are 247 Labour MP's blocking the deal.





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15 May 2019 23:01 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

and they are hero's, everyone!





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16 May 2019 07:07 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

Mucky likes to go around and around with the same old story





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16 May 2019 08:17 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

The prime minister's Brexit deal was originally backed by 202 MPs but 432 voted against. The defeat was 230 votes the largest margin suffered by any government. It's interesting some posters focus here only on one party when actually all political MP groups opposed it. 

If parliament cannot agree Brexit won't happen. Unless the EU asks the UK to go. Leavers will simply have to accept the sovereignty and legal authority of The House of Commons. Government by plebiscite would be a strange system indeed.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 08:35 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

No Mickyfinn, eventually someone will take over and sort this shambles out and we will be out, deal or no deal, like it or not.



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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 09:13 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I accept the UK is leaving the EU at some point but the way it leaves may not be to the liking of most people who believed in a cliff edged exit.

In truth both the Uk ans EU have strong ties and it's in nobodies interests these don't continue in some form. If the art of politics is compromise the first step towards a solution is recognising neither side can get what they want. The sooner that happens the better. 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 10:01 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

"I accept the UK is leaving the EU at some point but the way it leaves may not be to the liking of most people who believed in a cliff edged exit". -No you dont accept it otherwise you wouldn't be dedicating your life to trying to overturn it or get a BRINO version which for remainers is better than leaving with no ties.

"If parliament cannot agree Brexit won't happen" Then we will get a Parliament that will agree and get rid of the liars and traitors.

The main parties should be very afraid, the only reason we got a referendum was Sir Nigels UKIP party was going to decimate all of them. The Brexit party will have the same effect.





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16 May 2019 10:01 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

They have had 3 years to work out a compromise and the electorate are now sick of it all. That is only likely to make a cliff edge exit more realistic, especially if we get a loony BREIXT into power.



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When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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16 May 2019 10:16 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I advise not to be seduced by Farage and the group he created. The support he seems to currently have come from they that voted leave.in the referendum. There is no new voter support. The remain voters are split into the rest of the political parties. In any case, these Euro elections are meaningless. It's unlikely they will ever take their seats. No benefit will come of it other than to elevate Farage personal ambitions a tad further. Other than wanting to privatise the NHS with US investment he's an empty one issue vessel.

Acceptance of Brexit does not mean I want it. Simply it's an acknowledgement of the current political reality. 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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16 May 2019 10:19 by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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The fact that it has taken three years to get nowhere shows that there is no appetite for what is on offer.  

Leavers have hardened their view as have remainers.  I don't believe there has been much shifting from one view to the other.  Demographics are against Brexit.   The tide turned back in January.  This is why Leavers have gotten so anxious about the whole thing.  

It is no longer about negotiating a good deal it is only about leaving to a shouty minority.  There is no chance in a no deal exit.  The EU will not boot us out.   So Leavers need to compromise and win over the remainers.  

If I can keep Customs Union, Single Market and get a final say via a new referendum on the deal then I am prepared to leave.  Otherwise, I am happy to remain and negotiations can continue from within the EU for as long as you like.  





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16 May 2019 10:34 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 751 posts Send private message

"The support he seems to currently have come from they that voted leave.in the referendum" so thats over 17 million then, that should be enough.

"So Leavers need to compromise and win over the remainers" No we don't, we won.





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