Are the days of Freeloaders limited in Spain?

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23 Feb 2019 09:53 by acer Star rating. 1402 posts Send private message

I wonder if Brexit will be the cause of the Spanish authorities to finally tighten up on the thousands of Brits and other expats that flout the system.  Many don't seem to pay non residents Income tax and stay in Spain for up to 12 months in the year - completely ignoring the 183 rule.

I'm a great believer in liberal attitudes, but some of these folk abuse the system to the point that it gives us foreigners a bad reputation.

I was interested to hear a report that Corvera intends to use their new passport control system to keep a careful note of foreigners comings and goings.  I believe that Alicante's system is very similar.  The bank openly admit that they are obliged to pass info to Hacienda. 

Last week we bought a new cooker and I was asked for my NIE number - I asked "why" and again it seems that all this info is now going to the tax authorities.  It's now big brother and his entire extended family are watching you!!!

I know that they may shoot themselves in the foot in the process as the Brits keep the Costas financially afloat.  But the Spanish are a fragmented country - possibly the guys in Madrid don't care about two hoots and intend to start using their powers to impose the laws that they've let slip for so long.  With Brexit happening, this may be good timing?

 

 


This message was last edited by acer on 23/02/2019.

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23 Feb 2019 10:41 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Yes, I agree with acer. Illegal habitation in Spain, especially for Brits, is coming to an end. Brexit will force people to conform to the law and that’s always a positive. The comfortably off Brits who contribute very little to the country, ignore the tax rules, live under the radar unregistered and believe they are untouchable by the system have had their day.

Spain in the last few decades has transformed into a modern European democratic nation. EU regulations are slowly being adopted and accepted as part of that transformation. The country just needs to invest further in compliance structures such as policing and law enforcement generally.

One other long overdue new law is private property rentals for holiday letting. You now cannot rent a property legally without it being registered and inspected by the local tourist board and the Guardia Civil. 24% of the rental income for British owners after Brexit will be taken in tax. The figure is 19% for EU nationals. Fines for none compliance are enormous. Spanish holiday letting sites on the internet are now being closely monitored by the Hacienda.

My advice to any Brit reading this and living illegally in Spain is go back and live in UK  or risk a knock on the door.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 23/02/2019.

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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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23 Feb 2019 11:53 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1012 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

The Spanish authorities need to be careful they do not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Many expats and Brits behaviour is only in response to Spain’s culture of no respect of laws, rules and regulations.

How do you expect expats to behave when they see the Spanish shambles of a justice system and the banking industry abuse? Spain is only ranked no 8 last year and is going backwards.

Expat rankings 2018

RANK

COUNTRY

1

Bahrain

2

Taiwan

3

Ecuador

4

Mexico

5

Singapore

6

Portugal

7

Costa Rica

8

Spain

9

Colombia

10

Czech Rep.



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23 Feb 2019 12:25 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

I personally don't have a problem with the cash in hand Brit's ...as they tend to work within the Expat community's ...they make a few euro,s and then spend the money made in the nearest Bar ..so in a around about way the Spanish Tax man and economy  does not loose out .





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23 Feb 2019 15:05 by acer Star rating. 1402 posts Send private message

I'm inerested with the spin-off.  I'm happy with my non-res status and paying my taxes and prefer to avoid the need for Spanish residency as I prefer to avoid getting involved with the Spanish tax system.  But some recent years we've been over here for longer stays - never vaguely bothered to count the days, but I wonder if I might need to do so in years to come.

Currently we have 5/6 trips a year, sometimes entering or leaving Spain by via Madrid or Valencia as well as the local airports.  So tracking us is not straightforward.

But if say you enter Spain and exit Spain by the same place a year or so later won't that prompt a question if you're non-res?



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23 Feb 2019 16:13 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Up to now the residency status for Brits has been a bit of a joke requirement. Only those requiring healthcare entitlement or legal employment have needed to comply. Of course the rule book Ronnie’s will comply with anything they are told including standing on their head on the kitchen table. There is free movement of people within the EU, so EU citizens have the legal right to reside wherever they want in the EU and that includes Spain no matter what bureaucratic nonsense is made up. As far as I am aware no EU citizen has ever been prosecuted or deported for not registering as resident. I also doubt the authorities have much or any idea of the comings and goings of EU citizens other than taking an interest in terrorists and serious criminals.

However that may well change for Brits if they become classed as non EU citizens. They may need visas and have their passports stamped as they come and go. But as always will the lazy Spanish authorities be really bothered, we will have to wait and see. I go to Thailand now and again and if you overstay your visa its prison until the fine is paid, and then you will be barred ever returning.



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23 Feb 2019 17:13 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Tourism and i include residential tourism contributed 11% of Spains GDP in 2017. Its expected to increase in the future. British people tend to overlook that Spain is generally where most Europeans head for holidays and retirement. Usually they conform to the laws of the country.

Brits in my experience tend to see the rules as an inconvience largely because there is a belief, repeated on here that Spanish people are too lazy to be troubled with enforcement. That may have been the case years ago when the country was a different place. .Post Brexit i believe they are in for a surprise  Britain will become a third nation country and enforcement rules are applied against such citizens strongly. Ask any American if they can overstay their visa or avoid taxation.

Brexit will bring many changes for British people in Spain, especially if there is a no deal exit. All of these concequences will be entirely negative both for Brits and Spain.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 23/02/2019.

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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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23 Feb 2019 19:27 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 406 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

If your fantasy became reality ‘’enforcement rules are applied against such citizens strongly’’ Spain would be committing tourist and investment suicide. Spain has 40% youth unemployment and hasn’t put cement on a brick for the last 10 years.

 



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23 Feb 2019 20:22 by marcbernard Star rating in Marina Alta; Alicant.... 252 posts Send private message

And Angeleyes has clearly not been in various parts of Spain where things are going well.





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24 Feb 2019 09:42 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

I agree with some of what Angeleyes has said like youth unemployment..but as another poster has also stated building work in popular parts of Spain like in and around the Alicante region seems robust ...with building sites everywhere.. personally I think the large so called golf resorts out in the middle of nowhere have had their day  people ...even golfers / holiday makers want a community with shops / buses / Taxis / and a complete infastructure and everything on tap for every day living...I don't think you will ever see enything like Polaris word and the likes ever being built again....l know most of what I am saying is off the thread  ...so let's get back on the subject of so called free loaders .. personally I think Spain thrives on a black market economy I have owned a place on Camposol for eleven year's ..that has a large black market work force and it does not bother me at all.

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 24/02/2019.



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24 Feb 2019 10:23 by acer Star rating. 1402 posts Send private message

Windtaker, although I "liked" your post I don't fully agree.  Polaris World and similar have their own fans.  In the UK I've just down sized to live in a small city where I can walk to everything I wish.  But I wouldn't want the same in Spain - our time here is more relaxed and travel to Mediterraneo and the like is a necessity. 

Also I would not wish to be limited to one or two local cafes & Restaurants - to enjoy living here you need to have transport, so why not live on one of the golf urbs?  Particularly ones that are well located.

The original post was intended as posing the question of whether the Spanish were closing time on the Freeloaders.  They are undeniably taking steps to track people.  Why do they want my NIE number to be submitted to them when I buy a new cooker?  I gather they also want data from utlility suppliers there days to see when your property is occupied.  Are these not measures towards increasing their control?



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24 Feb 2019 10:54 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Each time you give someone your NIE number you leave a footprint that traces your presence in Spain. Utility bills do something similar as well as mobile phone records. If the authorities want to prove you have overstayed your visa it's a very simple matter so to do.

The EU commission has recently announced a new procedure for British people to obtain a Schengen tourist visa post no deal exit. It's going to cost €7 valid for 3 years for up to 90 days in any twelve months. Presumably, there will be IT records kept at points of entry to ensure compliance. It will be similar to the ETAS visa-waver scheme to enter the USA. It needs to be obtained 72 hours in advance of departure. You will also be required to have at least 6 months left before expiry on your passport



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Feb 2019 11:40 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

Mickyfinn ..the UK already has a system in place ..for the last five years .. every time you travel in and out the UK it is electroncally documented...I was pulled over last year and asked why I travelled back and forth to Spain every six weeks throughout the year ..I was shown a computer screen that went back over 5 years ...I simply done the right thing and told them why...as I did not fancy being strip searched and asked to bend over if you get my drift.

 





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24 Feb 2019 12:42 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Yes Windtalker that's been done for years Britain has never been part of schengen. I'm explaining Spain will now do it post no deal as will all schengen zone countries. Britain will have third country status so the advantages Britain's enjoyed for years will come to an end.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Feb 2019 13:30 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

Currently British holiday makers spend £33 Billion (pounds) per year in Europe..so I can't see the EU being to hard on us .. apparently the EU are only going to permit flight's in to the EU...that have a Permanent base and pay Tax in the EU ..I am not to sure how this is going to work with the likes of Spain's National  Air line Ibera as it is owned by the the UK based company IAG ...with its head office in based in the UK ...it looks like they are trying to turn the Whole of the EU into one Big country ....Crazy what next a passport  with the country of origin The EU.





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24 Feb 2019 13:44 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

No the EU has to protect the integrity of its external borders. In the same way the UK currently tries to do. There cannot be laws and rules for one and not the other. Britain will be a third country nation after leaving the EU without a deal, with the same political status as the other none EU aligned states around the world.

Brexit has consequences. The fact British people spend money in Spain is irrelevant in this context.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 24/02/2019.

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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Feb 2019 14:01 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1012 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

The EU need to be careful with their childish behaviour, they may isolate themselves from the rest of the world and suffer financial exclusion. As usual in life the tin Gods will be long gone when the consequences are felt. They may also cause their own internal destruction with wise members jumping ship.



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24 Feb 2019 14:43 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

I know this is of the thread...but how are the so called EU going to go about stopping... Air lines that are base in the likes of UK/Canada/America/ Russa and so forth flying into countries like France / Germany Spain and so on... surly  it's down to individual countries within the EU membership to be in control of its own air space ...if the EU imposed such a ruling ... do they expect every other none EU country to allow EU flights in ...but these none EU countries can't fly in to EU air space... without having a head quarters base in a EU members country ..I am totally confused how on earth is that going to work.





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24 Feb 2019 15:01 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1101 posts Send private message

Windtalker, those non EU countries don't need to be headquartered in a EU country. I think you are misreading the rules on this. Countries outside the EU can fly into any EU country no matter where they are based as can EU airlines to any other country.

There will be nothing to stop UK airlines flying in to EU countries either. What may change (and only may) is that, like other non EU countries, they will not be allowed to fly from one EU country to another. For example, before the EU Open Skies regulations, Ryanair could not fly from UK to Spain. It could only fly into and out of Ireland. BA could fly to Madrid or Alicante but could not fly from Madrid to, say, Berlin or Rome. It could only fly back to the UK.

Before the Open Skies rules, Ryanair could fly from Dublin to London and it could fly from Dublin to Alicante (as an example). But it couldn't fly from London to Alicante. Once the Open Skies agreement came in then Ryanair suddenly became a big carrier as it could now fly from anywhere in the UK to anywhere in the EU. 

This is the agreement that UK could (only could) lose out if no deal is made. You'll still get BA to Madrid but the BA Madrid to Athens (for example) won't be possible.

 

 

 





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24 Feb 2019 15:14 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1012 posts Send private message

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Give a man a title, a desk, an office and he becomes God in his own fantasy world. It’s a bit like the old days of the committee man at the working men’s club. The reality of how anything works becomes irrelevant. They become drunk with power, a bit like a cocaine addiction. Unfortunately they end up in the asylum but take many others with them.

The bigger the Empire the bigger the lunatics that run it. Look back at history.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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