Should there be a second referendum?

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26 Nov 2018 13:43 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 405 posts Send private message

mac75´s avatar

Initially, I thought that this would, in essence, undermine democracy but giving it more thought I suppose the devil is in the detail. What some may consider a black and white issue is in fact a question with many shades of grey. For those who see life largely in black and white, those leavers will almost certainly say yes it would undermine democracy - Leave won, and that is a result that cannot ever be and should never be overturned -

That being the case, I would be inclined to ask - if the last general election result was a win for those voting Conservative, and while people should be allowed to change their mind, but cannot be allowed to convert their change of mind or heart into a different reality, why should we ever have another general election? Why not argue that the result that delivered a Conservative government should now stand forever...

In a black and white world, our choices should be 'forever'. Perhaps we could say once you have voted for the first time you can never change your vote, the outcome can only ever be affected by the will of the first time voters...

How soon could we hold another referendum without people crying foul? 10 years, 20 years? What if the outcome was then to Rejoin? Would leavers be saying a great result for democracy... Is this a question of time? Where do we draw the line and who defines it?

By definition, can it ever be undemocratic to hold another referendum? 

 

 

 



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26 Nov 2018 14:22 by BigAl2015 Star rating. 194 posts Send private message

I guess that there can only be 1 reason to have another referendum, and that is because one section of voters (the minority) did not get the result they wanted.

This opens up the question of, if we have another referendum and the result is reversed, then surely it is then acceptable for there to be another referendum because the new minority don't like the result?





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26 Nov 2018 14:34 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 405 posts Send private message

mac75´s avatar

"I guess that there can only be 1 reason to have another referendum, and that is because one section of voters (the minority) did not get the result they wanted."

What if members of the old majority have changed their mind and now think as the old minority? 

If it is as you say, then the result would be same anyway, so what's to worry about?



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26 Nov 2018 14:55 by BigAl2015 Star rating. 194 posts Send private message

A vote is taken at a 'given moment in time' and so the result at that moment in time stands.

It really is not accpetable to say "I don't like that result, I want another one".

There is no end the this scenario, the minority can always say 'I don't like that result, I want another'.

 





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26 Nov 2018 15:06 by baz1946 Star rating. 2000 posts Send private message

Forget all the rubbish that has come out over leaving, and still is, like bottled water will run out, health tablets will be scarce, the UK public were told nothing of any standing about what might happen if we left, reason being our leaders believed we would never leave, Cameron for one, they never went any further in finding out what would happen if we did, then all of a sudden stuff comes out about the dangers of leaving, could be forgiven to believe that the EU is doing this to stop us leaving, also not forgetting the PM never wanted out so not the best person for that job.

Could be said this is all down to Cameron, had he got a better deal when he went to negotiate with the EU things might have been different.

Now its plain to see the EU is nothing but running scared over losing our money,  the gravy train,  the high pensions,  and so on, tip of the iceberg really these reasons, the one big threat is that others might want to leave as well.

If we had another vote I honestly believe that it would say stay, the EU has got it sewn up so as no one can leave fully.

I would again vote out, if nothing else this fiasco has shown me the light of what the EU is all about.





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26 Nov 2018 15:10 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 323 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

The remainders’ will say yes, some BREXITERS now in doubt may say yes, pro BREXITERS will say no. The vote was almost 50/50 it would go on forever; the only winners were the TV media who have milked it until everyone is sick of listening.

What next, ask the audience, phone a friend or go 50/50?

Seems to me the opposition parties in parliament are against any deal, if May came back with a winning lottery ticket for everyone they would say no, so much for the country, all about their own selfish interests, two faced tossers.

I was a remainder.

 



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27 Nov 2018 08:13 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

Why should we have have another vote we have had a Democratic vote ...don't undermine democracy and believe me if the Remoaners got through on a half of 1% it would have been referred to as a land slide victory to remain...so live with it and just prey that Corbin's Labour party never get in again to govern the UK.





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27 Nov 2018 09:18 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Skegness. 61 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

I suppose if Teresa can’t get her deal through parliament it could open the door for Jeremy, but we would also have the benefit of Diane Abbott.



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27 Nov 2018 11:55 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

If the UK had another EU in /out vote.. and and the outs win again  ...the tree huggers and the citizen's Smith's would not accept it...this is why we have a democratic vote that keeps people in line .

 

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 27/11/2018.



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27 Nov 2018 13:16 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 405 posts Send private message

mac75´s avatar

So when would it be acceptable to vote again?   5 years?  10 years?  15 years? a generation later?



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27 Nov 2018 15:13 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

Mac 75. why would we want another vote to get into something... That has taken us 40 years to get out of.

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 27/11/2018.



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27 Nov 2018 16:24 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 323 posts Send private message

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72% voted in the original referendum, I doubt that many would have the stomach for a repeat. We were told a pack of lies from every direction the first time round and people won’t forget that for a long time. If there ever is another vote it will only be when it suits the interests of the government in power and not the public (sheep).



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28 Nov 2018 21:39 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

If we did have a second referendum and the vote was out...what would the government do ...how would they go about getting us out surly the UK government would have a back up plan ...if out was the outcome  is it not the norm to have a plan B in big business if so why have another vote why not implement the back up plan now.

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/11/2018.



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28 Nov 2018 22:47 by baz1946 Star rating. 2000 posts Send private message

They do have a back up plan ready to go, just cant use it yet until all the reasons as to why we shouldn't leave have been told and aired, like the latest scare from Carney, got a little bit more softening up of the public before the leave  bubble bursts, quite well planned it would seem.





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29 Nov 2018 07:50 by Mickyfinn Star rating. 1437 posts Send private message

It is clear that if Britain wants to reconsider and remain in the EU a second referendum is the only acceptable democratic method to achieve it. Parliament cannot simply ignore the first vote. Teresa May’s deal looks like a dogs breakfast compromise that satisfies no one.

A lot changes in 2.5 years, younger people become eligible to vote. Brexit will impact them much more. Voters become better acquainted with the facts rather than just campaign rhetoric.

I would argue that the negative consequences of Brexit are enormous. The benefits small in comparison. It is such a major decision for a nation impacting many generations to come. A second vote surely simply just asks the question, “Are you sure”? That must be right.

There is evidence the campaign was influenced by illegal outside forces and plain lies from the major players. Given all these circumstances people who voted leave simply can have a change of heart. How often have you bought something and later wished you hadn’t bothered?

The diehard dogmatists for whom no amount of facts or opinion would influence their own logic will still vote leave. However I sense there is a change of mood in the country. People understand they will lose many advantages in return for little or nothing.





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29 Nov 2018 08:59 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

What has the fact that young people two and half year ago did not get a chance to vote got to do with it ...who said if we had another vote that these people would vote in...The Remoaners are trying every filthy trick in the book of politics ..like we should have another vote as most that voted out are now dead and so on what a load of crap ...we have had a Democratic vote and we voted out ...the main reason for this was the open door directly in to the UK Benefit system  from the very poor member state's ...Junker refuse the UK permission to stop eastern Europeans and the likes drawing social security payments that the UK Tax payer's have paid for ...our NHS system /Education system/ Social housing/and so forth is at breaking point ...the political establishment in the UK ... especially the Labour party stood back and let this happen even when people started to complain ....if they want all these foreigners in the UK why did they not provide the infrastructure to support this massive unregulated influx of people... Junkers answer to the UK problems was the EU would only help out and allow changes if our country was close to bankruptcy... some in the political establishment are calling for another referendum ...but when asked how they are going to stop unregulated  EU open door policy overloading the UK infrastructure if we remained.. they have no answer's ...so until they have permanent fix in place ..OUT IS THE ONLY ANSWER.





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29 Nov 2018 10:16 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 323 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

I agree with some of your comments but on UK immigration NON EU have always been the majority. In or out of the EU I doubt in truth anything will change other than extra paper shuffling for EU citizens. The UK has the world NHS and is benefits paradise, we are a laughing stock to all.  



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29 Nov 2018 10:18 by baz1946 Star rating. 2000 posts Send private message

The general consensus of another vote is widely spoken that the country would vote to stay in the EU, probably due to all the scare mongering being put out, people are sick to the back teeth of watching it with next to nothing constructive seen to be done, bickering from all sides as to who would, will, and could object to everything every which way.

The young who never had a chance to vote last time would love to vote, you only have to look at who start the many protests all over the country, many who think they know it all yet look like they are still in nappies, sure they need the chance in life but first they need to prove it...'Employ the youth now while they know it all' ...But they could vote in and the vote counts.

Many of these care less about shutting down borders because many have close friends who have arrived illegally, forget what the EU should do, we know what they want after having it for many past years, the young eligible voters don't know anything because some are not even half the age of the EU.

No one person in the general domain knows how good or bad the latest must have deal is, it is like the budget..'Nothing to be afraid of what they tell you, be very wary of what they never tell you'





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29 Nov 2018 10:36 by Mickyfinn Star rating. 1437 posts Send private message

Is it not more democratic is give the current 18+ generation a chance to choose their own futures? A second leave vote would bolster Brexit and go some way to unite the country. Why do leavers so object to a second chance to express their wishes? If they were true democrats confident in their case it would be natural to relish the prospect.

I’m very glad I am a European citizen of British origin so would rather like my rights to continue. In a no deal scenario they are at risk. Just as all British residents will lose their current rights to live, vote, retire, travel freely and enjoy healthcare support and security in Europe. That’s worth a second chance to express support or choose to give away.





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29 Nov 2018 11:02 by windtalker Star rating. 1441 posts Send private message

These young guns that want to part of the EU ... should have a look at the unemployment across the EU in the under 25 age group ...it over 30% in most countries across the EU they should also take this into consideration  ...this is one of the main reasons why the UK is overrun with the uncontrollable  open borders of the EU.... people are no different from sheep farmers keeping sheep in pens ...if they don't do this they will run all over the place looking for the juices blade of grass and when they have stripped that Field bare they just move on.

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2018.



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