Should there be a second referendum?

or they paved paradise and put up a parking lot

when jeremy's PM we'll nationalise rail. electricity gas......that's really taking our country back......that's the deal we'll do with the EU...Corbyn and Labour are the real patriots here....not the spivs and stock market reptiles who wrap themselves in the union flag and blame woes on immigration....while stashing money in tax havens to avoid taxation

The UK appears well placed to building on a far more ethical approach to delivering a system that meets the approval of its citizens, who are thankfully increasingly aware of the need for a greater balance and compliance in that process.

What is of ongoing concern however is the manner in which this is achieved so as not to disrupt cohesion that has taken years to achieve.

The trouble appears to be that the choice for a balanced and civilised approach to taking back effective control, affording greater transparency, accountability and compliance than currently exists from within the EU, required by the majority of UK nationals (common sense approach), is sadly frequently dismissed and undermined by those with more extreme political views or those intent on a different agenda such as a federal state.

when jeremy's PM we'll nationalise rail. electricity gas......that's really taking our country back......that's the deal we'll do with the EU...Corbyn and Labour are the real patriots here....not the spivs and stock market reptiles who wrap themselves in the union flag and blame woes on immigration....while stashing money in tax havens to avoid taxation

Perhaps Corbin would do all you say..If he got in that is, wasn't it labour who practically wrecked the country by sucking up to the unions which held the country to ransom with massive strikes, suppose you know that the labour mob didn't have of-shore accounts for sure, Jim Callaghan was a man of the people, a real working class person, how did he manage to get 2 very large farms, and quite a lot of acres of extra prime land on a labour PM's pay. Track back on a few other ex labour PM's you might get a shock as to how they got and hid the money.

Corbin would do what every other labour leader has done in the past, wreck the country then get booted out leaving the mess to the money people to sort out, was Brown a labour man, a man who before becoming PM controlled the UK 's money who knew so much about finances he sold OUR gold on the cheap and robbed OUR pensions, gave the whole country the spending power they wanted, which practically broke the country, don't even go anywhere near Blairs finances.

It's got so bad now with this leave or not I for one wouldn't mind another referendum for in or out, thankfully we have learnt a very expensive lesson about what the EU is all about over these past few years and my bet is the vote would be a massive OUT.

you've got to laugh....wrecking the economy. The UK national debt in 2010 was £1 trillion. After nearly a decade of tories running the economy, the national debt is now £1.78 trillion...looks like Labour will have to clear up the tory mess

Yes the UK national debt is £1.78 trillion. So what’s the big deal? Perhaps you could explain what national debt is all about, if you know? 

The US national debt is $15.8 trillion 

China national debt is US$ 5.2 trillion

The reason for the £1.78 trillion debt ..is down to the Conservative government that was forced to borrow money to bail the UK out of the mess Gordon Browns / Tony Blair's Labour party got the country into ...the biggest recession since the great depression Labour supporters have got a short memory can't you remember the note's that new Conservative government departments found in the cupboards that said on them that they had run out of money...if (and that's a big if)  Labour ever get in again they will attempt to take the country back to the 1960 dark age's with 1 man 1 job ...all this talk of nationalisation of the Gas / Electric / Railways and so on ...the Labour party nutts to think they can do this they can't just confiscate these companies they will have to be bought back with real money ..the same real money the Labour party promised the student's at the last general election to clear the students dept off ..Labour admitted after they lost the election they could not come up with this money to clear the students dept.

Although a sensitive issue, labours track record on migration also ironically resulted in pressures on cohesion with several admitting after the event that they made major mistakes in their policy decision making, which without doubt played its part in the distrust of Governments willingness to listen to its multi cultural citizens. Another case perhaps of sadly picking up the pieces of failed policy making?

This article from 2015 makes for troubled reading and one can only hope that they have learned lessons (?) and the need for a far more balanced approach and to listen to the first hand concerns of UK citizens who in the main pride themselves as a caring and integrated society.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/355

This plays its part going forward in so much as Governments need to listen to the concerns of  citizens and try to apply  well balanced reasoning with inbuilt flexibility to adapt, by the use of trusted analytical mechanisms and impact analyses ( at both EU and Govt levels).... that allow for realistic forward planning. How often do we hear that ideological political interference undermines the best interests of citizens? 

This message was last edited by ads on 06/12/2018.

The horse has well and truly bolted on the UK immigration situation of control. Foreign-born population 2017, 9,382,000 14%. That excludes those born in the UK to foreigners. This will obviously increase with new wife’s, husbands and family joining them. The subject is a dead duck and a white elephant used by politicians for propaganda and manipulation.

How can any politicians say they will or can take back control of our borders other than increasing paper shuffling at point of entry? or introducing another Windrush scheme?

debt under Gordon Brown....nothing to with the banks collapsing then ?...re writing of history

The need to adequately forward plan  goes beyond the issue of net migration ( which only demonstrates how lack of forward planning played its part).

Policy decisions need to be assessed using better trusted intellectual mechanisms that are wherever possible independent of political interference....trusted factual evidence as opposed to “ manufactured” evidence, or denial of uncomfortable truths.

For instance has better proven alternative economic modelling been dismissed out of hand by the Treasury, and why no talk of the failures of the current economic model upon which so much policy making is based? 

Until trust is restored in both willingness to listen to genuine concerns and the need to adopt fairer, better balanced but realistic mechanisms from which to forward plan, the saying “ burying ones head in the sand” springs to mind, no matter which Govt is in power.

Sorry posts crossed....re Banks collapsing.... lack of regulatory control,  lack of compliance, purposeful complex structures in place to confuse, all sadly ongoing issues that still continue to affect all too many innocents.

A better regulatory structure across all European countries is required if Banks are to be made better accountable to the citizens they are supposed to serve.

Quite concerning when you look to the backgrounds of many of those in positions of power in the European structure and how Banks work hard to lobby “ and “hug governments close”, and put in place many who had prior allegiances to Banks,  most notably Goldman Sachs. Another concerning article from 2011 begged many questions going forward.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html

ads, are you on the wrong thread in error?

Kavanagh, 

when there is the possibility or option for another election or another referendum, these decision making issues relating to Brexit do become relevant to the thread.

To repeat please look to your own responses before making singular criticism.

The benefit cap reform has apparently resulted in greater poverty and large numbers of children  being separated from their parents, families evicted and left homeless, a rapid growth and dependence on food banks, whilst they struggle to find work that pays sufficiently to meet rising rents, plus proliferation of zero hours contracts where the insecurity of working hours has made it nigh on impossible to organise childcare at short notice, let alone afford the childcare  given the lower wages that have arisen as another economic consequence of  over supply and migrants willing to accept lower wages in certain sectors.

This vicious downward spiral of knock on impacts from swift and unplanned migration alongside reform of the benefit system and paying down the UK debt, cannot continue indefinitely and the economic realities and stark unintended consequences on those most vulnerable in our society need to be faced. To suggest a clamp down of benefits in complete ignorance of the uncomfortable realities and knock on effects that have arisen as a direct consequence of swift large-scale migration is callous in the extreme and does not sit comfortably with all too many in the UK.

we've had a decade of a government cutting public services. Headteachers taking to the streets (not the tories fault of course) police numbers and budgets cut (but the subsequent increase in crime's got nothing to with less cops on the streets apparently) NHS budget cuts( but the answer is to privatise it apparently)....and after this timetable of austerity necessarry so we're told to cut the deficit....the defecit has almost doubled.  It's all Labour's fault of course. There was no world wide financial crash or maybe Labour was responsible for sub prime mortgages and reckless bank lending in the US. Meanwhile the apologists and right wing nut jobs spout a load of old cobblers

and of course foodbanks in the one of the world's richest countries have got nothing to do with universal credit.....cutting a safety net for poor folks....you could not make it up...Spain it seems is the world of the daily mail

Some might suggest we are a caring nation that is ALREADY in the process of reform, and it is debatable the pace at which this should be done in terms of austerity measures, etc....A fine  and sensitive balance in terms of retaining cohesion in our society, for which most UK citizens are rightly proud and wish to prioritise, but we cannot afford to ignore  the realities post the financial crash ( which again affected some member states more than others in terms  of their debt ratios) especially when the UK's system is under threat and at risk from factors outside of Govt control. 

p.s. I dont see it as a fault to be caring and timely with reforms intended to incentivise those nationals who have become benefit dependent for whatever reason over the years, and to establish a better system that realistically makes timely preparation in the interim periods prior to people achieving a decent living wage, whilst at the same time retaining and encouraging a psyche of understanding for those caught up in this viscious cycle of events. We should make no apology for being caring and sufficiently concerned to retain a cohesive society during these years when migration became out of kilter with all the subsequent negative impacts, so to speak.

But to repeat, all of these factors have been significantly compromised by the EU policy of free movement in recent years, and their failure to realistically allow member states to adequately preplan (in the case of the UK DC was asking for 13 years not 4 or 7, but denied).....Building houses, significantly increasing the various sector budgets (education, health, prison etc) to accommodate for swift irregular migration (unintended consequences???) etc all take time, especially when the Govt were attempting to address an increasing debt ratio (ironically advocated by the EU as a stability mechanism). It's the unrealistic forward planning mechanisms and willingness to review differentials and their impacts that appear to have failed in this regard in terms of adequate flexibility on the EU's part.

All of us, both sides of the debate, need to look to the unrealistic nature of the stresses that have occurred following such irregular patterns and learn from the mistakes, but to continually deny that the EU played little part in this scenario appears as denial.

The Labour / Lib Dems/SNP party's are loving the fact that the conservative party are in disarray over the Brexit ...they are not helping the government in power or the general public one bit and are trying to force a general election by basically disagreeing with just about everything  that is put forward in the public's interest..by the conservative    government ..the SNP & theLib Dems ..are in the same bed as the Labour party these party's want to overturn Democracy and keep the UK in the EU against a Democratic referendum .. With a majority  that  voted Leave the EU ..all these party's see a general election as a back door way of having a new referendum to overturn the vote to leave ..the Lib Dems /Labour/SNP are playing politics and do not have any interest in the wellbeing of the UK.

Windtalker the DSS system was set up for the people of the UK ....As you well know David Cameron tried to stop EU migrants claiming benefits pre Brexit and was stop by the EU . Hence one of the reasons the UK voted out of the EU ...Now please don't go harping on that the UK DSS is to generous it was set up to look after  the people of the UK not for the population of the EU if you stop the scroungers claiming the DSS then the Brexit would never happened simple as that.