Should there be a second referendum?

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20 Dec 2018 10:45 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1667 posts Send private message

I have a view that people are people no matter where they originate, skin colour, religion, culture, language. We are all human inhabitants of the planet. Diversity enriches a country not the opposite. I only ask that people whoever they happen to be to play by the rules and contribute to society. You will always have the exceptions both foreign and domestic. You will always have a percentage, again foreign or domestic that sponge on the state. Indigenous British people have been doing it for seventy years.

I live in Spain and France. In both countries there are many diverse nationalities as there are in all EU states. As an example Spain has the highest number of Romanians living in the country next to the British, working, contributing. There are no social security payments unless you have worked a minimum of 2 years and contributed to the system. Even after that the level of payment is minimal and based on contribution. I know many Romanians and count them as my friends. They are extremely hard working and decent people. There are also many Romanians of the opposite type. It’s just the way life is.   

When nations create barriers they become isolated, insular and decline economically. It's a well-trodden historical experience..

In the years after Brexit Britain will discover that highly skilled European people can get as much opportunity within the EU community as Britain previously offered. They will not want to move to the UK in future. Why would they want to face hostility and earn less? They that are currently there will drift back to their origins. Immigration from Africa and the Middle East will not change as wars famine and economic disasters force them to come. Brexit will not change that at all.

Retaining choice and control of migration from the EU breaches the founding principal of the European community. To leave because of that denies the country all the positive benefits of membership. It really is cutting your nose to spite your face.



_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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20 Dec 2018 10:53 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Face hostility?????

This is inciteful and wrong. We are a welcoming nation of people and work hard at integration policies and most pride themselves on such values, but need to take control when the economy and infrastructure come under stress. It’s common sense. These inflexible policies from the EU are damaging cohesion not enhancing it.





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20 Dec 2018 10:57 by baz1946 Star rating. 2039 posts Send private message

Why does everyone keep on about EU migrants, it's not the EU migrants that are causing the problems, not only in the UK but every country they go to.

I did NOT vote out because of the migrant issues, hells bells I am married to an East German Lady, you mention Romanians working and living with you and are contributing, thats good, but I did mention that the UK system is at fault.

This gets one sided all the time with you and no wood for the tree's.





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20 Dec 2018 12:27 by windtalker Star rating. 1531 posts Send private message

Baz1946...its not just the UK system at fault...its the stupid EU regulations that are at fault ...anyone from any part of the so called EU can migrate to any part of the EU  ( usually the most prosperous part ) with no credit checks/no criminal checks/no job offer/ no proof of how you can support yourself / no permanent address...this needs to change.

But you will need to wait until the MPs come back from the 24 day Christmas holiday break ...apparently the UK is going to fall apart  anytime now and the people that are being paid to run the UK could not careless... which just goes to prove that the EU is running the UK and not MPs ...personally I think  all the scare mongering is put about by UK MPs  that are being paid to do a job ..that they are not capable of doing...without the aid of the EU.

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 20/12/2018.



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20 Dec 2018 13:02 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1667 posts Send private message

If the UK system is at fault voting to leave the EU won't change anything except restrict EU workers coming in. Immigration either illegal asylum seekers or over stayers will continue. The evidence for your belief windtalker does not stack up. This from the FT September 2017.

EU migrants have been applying in smaller numbers for out-of-work welfare benefits in the UK following a tightening of entitlement tests, according to a new report that also highlights how claims by these people are a small proportion of the total. So-called benefit tourism was a controversial topic in the run-up to the UK referendum on EU membership last year, with those concerned about immigration asserting that significant numbers of Europeans were drawn to Britain by its generous welfare system. But a report by the Department for Work and Pensions highlights how migrants from the European Economic Area — which as well as EU member states includes Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein — are only a small proportion of those applying for out-of-work benefits, and that their claims are declining in number.

https://www.ft.com/content/520f183e-8bdd-11e7-9084-d0c17942ba93

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 20/12/2018.

_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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20 Dec 2018 13:10 by baz1946 Star rating. 2039 posts Send private message

Couldn't agree more windtalker, 100%,  I have said all along that because ALL the MP's, even Mrs May don't want us to leave, then yes they can do all the damage they can to stop the leave under the pretence of trying to help the UK.

The EU is a poisoned club through and through and they have shown it every day now.

I don't watch it but have seen a snippet of our so called country leaders in the House, or what ever it's called, might be zoo,  talk about embarrassing, that ain't the word for it.





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20 Dec 2018 13:38 by windtalker Star rating. 1531 posts Send private message

Mickyfinn...do you think it is put acceptable.. for Peadophiles / convicted murder's / rapist / gangsters and the likes from the EU to freely Rome into the UK with any background checks ...with no right to refuse entry ..at this moment the UK cannot refuse entry to any EU citizen.





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20 Dec 2018 13:47 by baz1946 Star rating. 2039 posts Send private message

Have no doubt mickyfinn that genuine correct honest EU migrant benefit claims are down, so all the other so called immigrants to this country have no house's to live in, no bank accounts, can't get work because they don't exist here, they don't open barber shops or cash built kebab shops...And so on and so on.

You live in Spain and France, forget Spain, but hasn't France got quite a few no go areas now, probable because its over run with illegal Brits that are making them into ghettos...Have a think before you answer that one, if in fact you even  do.

And as you don't live in the UK how come you know so much about the problems we are having in the UK.





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20 Dec 2018 14:19 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1667 posts Send private message

France has its problems baz I wouldn't underestimate them either. Political discontent exists everywhere. That's an entire other subject worthy of another forum thread. Years of cramming immigrants from the Magreb into urban squalor and failing to offer them equality has driven a stake through the heart of the Republic. Once more not EU related.

Spain suffers from many uk criminals living on the Costas, especially the Costa del Sol. Just read the most wanted web sites. It works both ways. Paedophiles travel where they can to escape justice. Criminals know no frontiers or laws.



_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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20 Dec 2018 14:46 by baz1946 Star rating. 2039 posts Send private message

Forgive me but wasn't the political discontent in France down to someone putting up tax on fuel and many other items.

Many people in other countries thought it was being kind to take in strangers...Until they raped their Daughters.

So now you're saying that the problems are not EU related yet I thought they put out, quotas for the want of a better word, as to how many the EU wants it's members to take in.

You will find criminals everywhere agreed but what you don't find is many criminals like you say in Spain wanting to take over and make no go zones.

The EU is a mess, and NOT only from uncontrolled immigration, the rules that don't apply to a country yet the EU thinks they are best for it, you probably know this but years ago before the EU as we know it now was formed it was mentioned that they wanted all prices to be the same in every country for the same similar items, and that was from learned people, the mess has grown under a different name and got worse up to the point they want to control everything we do....Hence the main reason I voted out. 

Because you live in Spain and France it's no wonder you don't want us to leave and take our money with us.





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20 Dec 2018 15:09 by pjck Star rating. 37 posts Send private message

I'm afraid no go zones are not populated by those from EU... And although there are definitely some criminals among those who have come from EU (like in every community or nation) those gangs who raped British girls "en masse" are also not European. 





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20 Dec 2018 16:43 by windtalker Star rating. 1531 posts Send private message

Apparently the EU have brought forward planning for a no deal senario with the UK...this is nothing more than scare mongering and bravado from the EU   ...as I don't think the French or the Spanish fishermen are going to take it to lightly when they are told by the EU that they are no longer permitted to fish within UK coastal water's ( if it's riot's you want to see them watch this space).

 





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20 Dec 2018 17:36 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Skegness. 250 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Mickyfinn be careful with your racist remarks, you cannot mention British Criminals or  Paedophiles living on the Costa del Sol it is against the law.

And the same applies to you baz, you cannot say ‘’ Many people in other countries thought it was being kind to take in strangers...Until they raped their Daughters.’’ Even though it is known these same strangers rape their own daughters. This is also racist and illegal.



_______________________
There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window



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20 Dec 2018 19:19 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Simple questions....do you have enough homes to accommodate the current population range, how does your infrastructure ( roads, schools, hospitals etc)  currently accommodate for the existing population, are your health and benefit systems coping with the current population, do your local authorities have sufficient funding to accommodate their local populations, are your police, prison, fire, ambulance services coping with the current demands, is the existing population sufficiently skilled to accommodate current demands, have you had to go into debt to accommodate current demands, are the current population’s living standards and pay levels within the various income groups improving or declining, has population growth provided a net benefit to the country’s economy or has the growth in corresponding demands and debt outstripped the net benefits, what impact has population growth had on income levels, cohesion, businesses, education and health systems, infrastructure, services?

These are just a few examples of real questions that should be asked when considering the ability of a country to deal with increased migration at any point in time, instead of stoking up division and implying that those concerned by existing circumstances are racist or right wing in nature! 

Whatever the reasons that have led to the status quo, realities should be faced when planning a workable and effective migration strategy, and turning this into a political divide ( yet again) doesn’t help, as there are many across all political persuasions that have expressed concerns and want this resolved in as capable and civilised and flexible a manner as possible ( devoid of inciteful nonsense which only distracts away from problem solving!)





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20 Dec 2018 19:19 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Sorry duplicate post!


This message was last edited by ads on 20/12/2018.



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20 Dec 2018 20:35 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Skegness. 250 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Ads everything you say may be true, but it is your own fantasy world.

I have just watched two consecutive TV adverts.

The first is the usual give £2 month for Keyumbie living in Yemen who is starving and freezing to death. 800 children a day are dying from contaminated water and lack of sanitation. Out of the 2 quid the charity directors shove £1.80 in their arse pocket.

The following advert is get down to Morrison’s with a video of the roast beef joint being cut and the champagne being poured.

That’s what I call equality. Let Keyumbie starve to death, we’ve only enough Aunt Bessie’s for ourselves. Sod him.



_______________________
There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window



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20 Dec 2018 21:36 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Is the suggestion that  UK citizens are not sufficiently charitable in their  giving and therefore have no right to request control of their migration policy, but that they should be dictated to by the EU elite who have made decisions which ironically appear to be  compromising cohesion and tolerance across Europe?

If there are issues relating to directors of charities then are you taking action to gain greater regulation in that regard?

https://charitycommission.blog.gov.uk/2018/01/17/new-restrictions-on-who-can-run-a-charity-prepare-now-for-the-change/

 





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21 Dec 2018 10:12 by baz1946 Star rating. 2039 posts Send private message

And the same applies to you baz, you cannot say ‘’ Many people in other countries thought it was being kind to take in strangers...Until they raped their Daughters.’’ Even though it is known these same strangers rape their own daughters. This is also racist and illegal.

angeleyes, I have noted you seem to like to stir up controversy with you posts, good for you if thats you way of dealing with your life.

A week ago you told someone to keep to the posts in question so why are you posting pictures of sick children within the same posts about the UK leaving the EU, if thats meant to shock me over my racist comments, it don't, unlike you I have seen all this first hand so your words to me are falling on deaf ears and more then that proving you really haven't a clue what you are talking about here, yet have the cheek to tell ads he is in his own fantasy world.

And if what I say above is indeed illegal  (Which I care not one jot about)  then I am sure you know the correct legal people to get in touch with to issue me with the correctly worded summons....

Now shall we stick to the posts in mind.

 


This message was last edited by baz1946 on 21/12/2018.



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21 Dec 2018 10:38 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1667 posts Send private message

The Times newspaper has a very good piece on a no deal Brexit. It provides worst and best case scenarios for all the viable options the government can take. It provides an excellent understanding from every standpoint and every likely consequence. No scaremongering just common sense predictions.

It allows you to take your own preferred option and balance the likely worst case against best case. Then make up your own mind.

As Frank Zappa once said “a mind is like a parachute. It only works when it’s open”.

Feliz Navidad.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/good-the-bad-and-the-unknown-what-a-no-deal-brexit-looks-like-c2v8m3qt0

You may need to be a subscriber to access the link.



_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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21 Dec 2018 12:57 by windtalker Star rating. 1531 posts Send private message

Apparently from the 29 March ...2019...UK citizens living in Spain will no longer have the right to a vote in Spain with or without a Brexit Deal.





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