is it wise to move to Spain post Brexit

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26 Sep 2016 21:21 by deniseann Star rating. 18 posts Send private message

Having the interest in retiring to Spain shortly, is it now a bad time. I dont mean price-wise, more will the Spanish authorities allow British now to set up home.

Also, is it now illegal to buy a ruin to rebuild

thanks

Denise

 


This message was last edited by deniseann on 26/09/2016.



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26 Sep 2016 23:04 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 969 posts Send private message

Usual advice (Brexit or no Brexit)

Rent for a couple of years to make your mind up. Look into everything the life has to offer including where you would most like to be.

You will have a much better idea after two years and the post Brexit picture may clear in that time.

Not sure about ruins, perhaps some legal eagle may reply. Main problem in the past used to be establishing title.





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27 Sep 2016 10:15 by windtalker Star rating. 1708 posts Send private message

It is always a great time to retire ,but it is not wise to purchase a property in a country that you have just taken holidays in, so rent first if you rent first in a area that you fancy if it does not work then through the keys in and rent somewhere els ,if you decide to buy first you are taking a extremely big gamble you can rent  apartments for around €400 pm.





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27 Sep 2016 14:05 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Many people who are not from the EU have holiday homes here and are paying the same taxes as Non resident EU Nationals, so if or when Brexit comes in I do not think your ability to own will be a problem.   Non EU national can also take up Residencia (not EU Citizen Registration) so even if the rules on Brits change it will not be worse than the rules already applying  to non EU nationals.

 

As for the ruin.   I suggest you speak to an estate agent,  the building department of the town hall or the architect you may use.    You would need some sort of licence and certainly architect drawn plans.





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27 Sep 2016 14:32 by Destry Star rating in MYOB . 289 posts Send private message

Have a word with forum member, Spanish lawyer Mariacastro, she will be able to advise you on the purchase of a ruin. Sadly she knows the same as everyone else on your possible post Brexit position, this being zero. 



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27 Sep 2016 16:19 by sichez Star rating. 28 posts Send private message

johnzx, you raise a valid point which I hadn't thought of previously (the fact that non EU folk own and live or rent in Spain) with the same issues as Brits.

So, how would it change, if / when Article 50 ever comes to fruition and the loonies that voted for it get their way?

It's a tricky one, as no other country has left the EU before the way that UK is having to. Maybe it will be more difficult to get a driving licence?

I, for one, can't wait! I've had a place in Formentera del Segura for over 10 years. Love the village, love the lifestyle, love the climate, love it all!

Let's just hope that Theresa May takes an age to get Article 50 kicked off. For the time being, the status quo suits me fine. Although it would be nice to see a return to pre-Brexit exchange rates!





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27 Sep 2016 16:35 by Destry Star rating in MYOB . 289 posts Send private message

sichez,

After reading your second paragraph I suggest that you only seek advise from the super intelligent inners, good luck with your eventual decision. 



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28 Sep 2016 19:40 by deniseann Star rating. 18 posts Send private message

thank you

how do I contact Mariacastro?





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29 Sep 2016 12:34 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Most of the ruined Cortijos you see dotted around the landscape were abandoned in the Spanish Civil War. The owners fled to mainly South America to escape Franco’s persecutions. A large majority never returned. Before the war there was not really a land registry that we recognize today. Property was handed down through families. Some kept a handwritten piece of papers detailing the land boundaries and title but the majority did not.

After the war Franco tried to establish a land registry but it was a hit and miss affair and largely consisted as a man on a horse going round different regions making records. Many didn’t trust it and so title was never lodged.

It is almost impossible to buy a ruin because of lack of title unless there existing owners who can prove their title.. Some regions and local authorities will allow it and take your money but it carries huge risk. I know of an English man who many years ago restored an old Cortijo only to find one day a distant relative turned up waving a an ancient title deed. He lost everything.

Post Brexit Spain I believe will be a very different place for British people to live. Rajoy has already said so. Unless a so called soft Brexit takes place and established individual rights kept; British people will become foreign aliens and subject to the same controls and restrictions as any other nation outside the EU.

I have read recently that the acquired rights of the Vienna Convention of 1969 do not extend to individuals. So it will come down to what is negotiated after article 50 is implemented sometime next year.

That said anyone who wants to becaome a fiscal Spanish resident now may stand a a better chance of retaining that status after Brexit takes place.

In France there have been a flood of ex-pat Brits applying at their local Maries for residental status and putting up their hands for taxation.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 29/09/2016.

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29 Sep 2016 13:55 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Didn't the Govt suggest that reciprocal deals were to be saught following Brexit to the benefit of both? It makes little sense to do otherwise...mutually convenient arrangements?





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29 Sep 2016 14:00 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Ads   Didn't the Gov. suggest that reciprocal deals were to be sought following Brexit to the benefit of both? 

Reminds me of when I working in the area of fraud investigation.  'Promises as to the future, which may or maybe not be intended to be kept'





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29 Sep 2016 14:12 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

The point being mutually beneficial Johnzx....





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29 Sep 2016 14:22 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

 

Ads.      I of course see the logic of what you say,  but if the authorities were into logic, they might make private letting easy, even tax free, so as to encourage more letting and so increase holiday income for Spain, but they don't go for that logic. They just keep introducing more and more legislation to make it more difficult to let. 

 

I would not describe the Spanish as logical.


 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 29/09/2016.



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29 Sep 2016 14:54 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Is the letting legislation intended to appease the hotel industry lobbyists or is it intended to tighten up on abuses both by renters and landlords alike? 

If there are large swathes of landlord owners not paying their fair share of taxes on both sides of the channel, or abusing the system to the detriment of each country, then isn't it fair to address this issue? Likewise if there are renters abusing the system there need to be effective enforceable regulations in place for that too.

Abuse and corruption are sadly a cancer on civilised society and cross border harmony and mutual agreements and regulatory controls have become ever more essential in this day and age... IMHO eu countries should be looking to best practice and replicating it rather than keep re-inventing the wheel.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 29/09/2016.



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29 Sep 2016 15:06 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Ads  Is the letting legislation intended to appease the hotel industry lobbyists

If it were to improve conditions and safely for visitors I suggest the rules would be nationally set by central government, not randomly and differently by each Region.

 





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29 Sep 2016 16:35 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

ads wrote

Abuse and corruption are sadly a cancer on civilised society and cross border harmony and mutual agreements and regulatory controls have become ever more essential in this day and age.

That sounds like support for more EU ads. I thought you were an outer. Outers are unfettered free market bucaneers not regulationists. Liam Fox said so this morning. Basically Brexiteers want to be free of everything that looks like a restriction, eat their cake and have it too. 



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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29 Sep 2016 17:33 by Destry Star rating in MYOB . 289 posts Send private message

I would think that the Spanish and many of the honest British expats would sieze the opportunity to divest themselves of some of the UK's most unsavoury exports, I further hazzard a guess that the Roma and some other EU benefits tourists would be no loss to the UK, all this 'open borders' business does have some minus points.

As for 'eat their cake and have it too', many brit expats have taken advantage of hugely discounted Spanish property along with very beneficial exchange rates, however they are now throwing their toys out of their prams because a majority of UK voters used their votes in favour of Brexit, if that ain't 'have their cake and eat it', I don't know what is.      



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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT. THANK YOU.



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29 Sep 2016 20:57 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Mickeyfinn. It would be support for the EU were it not for the fact that the EU have FAILED to regulate and ensure member states adhere to the rule of law, have all too frequently  turned a blind eye to all manner of abuses and corruption brought to their attention, failed to ensure compliance with stability mechanisms, failed to regulate the movement of people where required, failed to heed the concerns of citizens and failed to demonstrate any willingness to reform, need I go on?

The UK want to take back CONTROL from the EU with regard to their failures to regulate in this regard , which is certainly not the same as "wanting to be free of anything that looks like a restriction". In fact it's the complete opposite..

It's true that there have also been failures by Cameron and his Govt which have been rightly exposed, but many prefer the ability to use their democratic right to ensure reform through their own ballot boxes rather than wait indefinitely for reform from intransigent EU bureaucrats.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 29/09/2016.



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30 Sep 2016 07:39 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Johnzx, is there a major problem with landlords in Spain not providing legal contracts to their renters and is this also a problem that people wishing to move to Spain need to be aware of ( as well as hidden extra taxes for those wishing to purchase properties below market values)?

Is there purposeful lack of transparency going on here?





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30 Sep 2016 08:08 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

ads.

Brexit has nothing whatever to with the transfer of controls or freedom from the lack of EU regulations. Brexit is a one issue matter for the British it’s called immigration. All the other negative consequences including those for people wishing to move to Spain in retirement are thrown on the bonfire in pursuit of restricted immigration.

A right of center British government freed up from EU controls will never deliver the financial regulation, accountability and scrutiny you seek. Outside the single market it will become necessary to have as few restrictions as possible to support and benefit the future economy. Freewheeling buccaneering capitalism will be the result.

If you believe the EU failed to regulate enough ‘you ain’t seen nothing yet’.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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