is it wise to move to Spain post Brexit

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30 Sep 2016 08:47 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

Denise,

You might have done better to pose your question without the "B" word. 

Spain will not change for Brits as both parties have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

If you are a non-resident there may be an extra job before you travel in obtaining a visa, but this will be another minor routine chore on the list, along with booking the taxi and telling the neighbours you're away.

The British passport can get you into virtually every country in the world and it is inconceivable that countries like Spain would want to make it more difficult for us to spend our money there.  Spain have always been selective on EU rules, so why should they change?

But if I were you I would be slightly less keen to apply for residency in Spain, mainly as I would be reluctant to complete the tax form and declare your worldwide assets.  I just wonder what will happen to the EU budget.  They are losing a major contributor to their coffers.  The EU isn't into reducing costs.  So the existing members will have to pay more and ex-pats may be a target for the extra taxes needed to keep the gravy train topped up.

In theory as a non resident you are restricted to 6 months in Spain every year.  But the practice is no-one checks or seems to take any interest.  This may change, but that won't happen overnight.

So if I were you I would be a little bit cautious, rent rather than buy, at least for a year or two.  Keep your options open and your assets safe by not applying for residency and enjoy it!



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30 Sep 2016 08:50 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Ads  Johnzx, is there a major problem with landlords in Spain not providing legal contracts to their renters and is this also a problem that people wishing to move to Spain need to be aware of

I bought my first property in Spain in  1983 and have lived here since 1987. All that time 100% legal lets by private landlords have been almost invisible.   I know over that time many people, some acting on professional advice,  have believed they were letting legally , but even many agencies, when questioned  rarely know all the rules which apply.  I know a gestor who has run a successful holiday letting agency for years but she is unable to answer all questions on the legal requirements. She has always  paid all her owners in cash for the lets she obtains. That said,  apart from maybe a few problems, people have let and others have rented without problems.  

 

The possiblity of problems seems to only ever be raised by non-Spanish and in particular Brits.    I think it is a case of being afraid of shadows, which do not exist.





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30 Sep 2016 09:08 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

The OP wants to retire to Spain I guess as an immigrant. That involves registering for fiscal status and healthcare. At the moment it is a right for Brits since we are still in the EU. After Brexit it may become discretionary or at worst impossible. Nobody knows. We can speculate and say nothing will change because the Spanish need British immigrants but do they really?

Why do the Spanish have a different attitude to immigration than the British. Why do the British living in Spain support Brexit since that is rather like shooting yourself in the foot. Or is it because the British in Spain somehow don't see themselves as immigrants? More long term holiday makers so rules don't apply.

There is a belief after Brexit nothing will change and people can continue to live illegally and flout the tax laws because the Spanish need the Brits. What arrogance is that?.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Sep 2016 11:38 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Ads

In theory as a non resident you are restricted to 6 months in Spain every year

Not sure if this is true - EU freedom of movement etc. yes you may have some paperwork to do, but no restrictions that I am aware of 



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30 Sep 2016 11:44 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

Mickyfinn,

When I read your post the saying " when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" came to mind.

Throughout the years some people take delight from chanting "the end of the World is Nigh", but they've all been wrong so far.  It was similar with the Millenium bug "Y2k" - a lot of fuss about nothing.  

IMO yes, there will be some changes, but it will be minor and the real affect of modest significance.

 


This message was last edited by acer on 30/09/2016.

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30 Sep 2016 12:01 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

ads apologies it was acer that said this

================================

Acer

In theory as a non resident you are restricted to 6 months in Spain every year

Not sure if this is true - EU freedom of movement etc. yes you may have some paperwork to do, but no restrictions that I am aware of 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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30 Sep 2016 13:25 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

Tadd1946,

Apologies the wording of my comment was clumsy.

What I meant to say was that if you stay in Spain for a period of 6 months or more you are deemed to be subject to the Spanish tax system.   Similarly if you are in Spain for more than 183 days in any 365 the same applies.  Also I believe you are supposed to register with them if you are staying for any period in excess of 3 months.

But it seems to me that a lot of Brits follow this rule as closely as the Spanish do to their own laws.



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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30 Sep 2016 13:36 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Acer,     what you say is correct, but if a person comes to Spain intending to stay 3 mths or more they must reregister when they arrive.    

If they come intending to live here, take work. or their family live here,  they must register on the EU Citizens Register immediately.   In that case the  183 day rule is superseded.





Like 3      
30 Sep 2016 15:57 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Acer

No problems and you are correct but being deemed to be under the Spanish tax system does not mean automatically that you are subject to Spanish tax. Yes highly likely and probably the default but there are other situations where you would not be subject to spanish tax  depending upon a number of factors

Every case is different which is why I keep saying take the correct professional advice about your own circumstances



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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01 Oct 2016 11:50 by Feeg Star rating. 35 posts Send private message

For what it is worth, my experience of the renewal of my NON-EU wife's residency card, and which we as NON-EU citizens following BREXIT can also expect to face. Regarding buying or renting a property in Spain it is sensible to rent first for about 12-18 months.

My wife's original card five years ago was very easy and cost 150 Euros with the abogado; the renewal has cost 1100 euros. The requirements were as follows:

Private medical cover and details of cover. Spain NHS cover and card. Copy of mine and her registrations on the Padron as residents of Spain. Marrige licence. Evidence of our owned properties (2 nos). Certificate (a letter) from MY bank showing I have sufficient funds to support us both (+/- 30,000 euros or more according to our abogado) showing AVERAGE balances over the previous 12 months and CURRENT balances. My RESIDENCIA showing evidence of PERMANENT residence over the past 5 years. All of the forgoing to be translated into Spanish by an OFFICIAL translator.

George

 





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01 Oct 2016 12:52 by grapow Star rating in Dénia (Alicante). 1 posts Send private message

I have no knowledge regarding the question concerning the ruin and must say that 7 years in we are loving retirement in Spain and havent regretted it for a second. If your intention  is to commit totally to Spain by paying texes here etc and becoming resident, I would have to urge to wait until the picture becomes clearer with regard to Brexit. Until we have concrete re-assurances concerning healthcare in particular it woukd be very risky in my opinion. Possibly the advice to rent for a couple/few years is the best advice.

Everything crossed for all of us especially those of us here comoletely legally!





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01 Oct 2016 14:04 by alant Star rating in Alto Guadiato, North.... 10 posts Send private message

I assume what is meant by buying a ruin is buying a ruin where there is no existing escritura.
 Unless the law as changed buying a ruin is no problem, I believe there are two ways of doing it, firstly make a legal escritura and a notice advising any one with a legal claim to the property that they can pursue their claim, this notice is displayed for one year. Not certain that the second way is legal, one partner buys the property and immediately sells to the other partner, this means two lots of taxes are paid but the second escritur can not be challenged.

 



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01 Oct 2016 14:23 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

01 Oct 2016 14:23 by Destry Star rating in MYOB . 289 posts Send private message

A very interesting post alant, I wouldn't mind reading  Maria's take on both points, the latter looks tricky enough to be totally legal in Spain.

 


 


This message was last edited by Destry on 01/10/2016.

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03 Oct 2016 11:30 by watchmanager Star rating. 23 posts Send private message

Sichez's response to Johnzx,

If I'm a loony then so is the MAJORITY of Brit's who voted for Brexit.

You appear to only see what you want to see. Well since the vote to leave, the country's economy is growing and the world economies are making it plain that they want to do business with us. Just as the EU will. So stop chewing on that sour grape and start to 'talk' your country up just as Theresa May has had to do. Artical 50 will be implemented in March and that will make a difference to how those non elected in charge of the EU start to treat us.

Oh! As for going back to the pre brexit exchange rates. Do you really want to go down to one Euro to the pound like it did several months before ? (0.98cents to the pound in some places). Short memory!

Long before we joined the EU people migrated/emigrated to Spain, nothing will change as Spain needs their money. There's no queues at the airport for going to non EU countries like Turkey, America, but to name only two. The EU will still be desperate to trade with us because they cannot afford not to. 

One final rant: Britain is NOT leaving Europe! We are leaving the EU.

EU does NOT stand for Europe, it stands for 'Economic Union' of which the British electorate have voted in their millions they don't want to have any part of, other than trade. So stop name calling and take a chill pill my friend.

 


This message was last edited by watchmanager on 03/10/2016.


This message was last edited by watchmanager on 03/10/2016.



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03 Oct 2016 12:16 by sichez Star rating. 28 posts Send private message

hey watchy, thanks for making my morning!

each to their own and all that, but the final 6 words of your rant had me spitting coffee over my brunch!

do you have a chill pill I could borrow until I get back to the asylum?





Like 1      
03 Oct 2016 16:54 by Destry Star rating in MYOB . 289 posts Send private message

It's never been a wise move, brave yes, but wise no, however if you are not dependent on exchange rates, why not? If say, someone had minimum UK family commitments, savings and pension provision and came to Spain to rent and work it could be a good move, but work is hard to find in Spain. 



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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT. THANK YOU.



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03 Oct 2016 18:46 by xJenny Star rating in Spain/England. 12 posts Send private message

I honestly believe that in life you do tend to regret the things you didn't do rather then the ones you did, of course Spain throws a much different light on these words.

Work wise it is difficult, we speak to people who have done much the same as you want to achieve and the biggest problem was work in its entirety, if you speak Spanish superbly then something along the lines of helping the police out, as in when they have British people come to them sounds a very good bet, no idea if you could get paid for that work though, does depend a lot on your style of work. 

As said on here if you have the funds sounds good, the life style is second to none, but sadly money is the root of all evil in this scenario. Very good luck to what ever you decide on.

 


This message was last edited by xJenny on 03/10/2016.



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03 Oct 2016 19:06 by watchmanager Star rating. 23 posts Send private message

Hi siccky,

It was't the rant that made you spit the coffee out. It was the sour grape you finally choked on because you realised that you agreed with me especially about name calling.





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03 Oct 2016 19:59 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

xJenny:    if you speak Spanish superbly then something along the lines of helping the police out, as in when they have British people come to them sounds a very good bet, no idea if you could get paid for that work though

 

Twenty years ago, when  I started learning Spanish, I wanted to put something back into the community. I knew there were teams of volunteer translators working at medical centres but my Spanish was so bad I would probably have ‘killed people’.  Thinking that my police experience would be similar to Policing in Spain (I was wrong)    I set up a team of volunteer translators at a police station.  They were all from my Spanish class. We had very basic Spanish but did our best.   .A few months after I was asked by another Comisario (police chief) to set up a team at his police station.   Over the next few months I was asked to set up teams at 3 more stations. Which I did.

After about 10 years of recruiting, training, coordinating  and supporting those five teams I backed off as it was becoming a full time job.  Since then have just done one morning a week as a translator. 

 

Over the ten years about a 100 volunteered and worked for  a period and four of these are still working.  All wonderful people freely giving  their time to help others.

Never has it ever been suggested by anyone that the volunteers should get  pay or benefits of any kind, not even expenses for petrol, telephone calls etc.     We have never even had insurance to cover us in the event that we were injured whilst doing that work.

 

If the police would pay for the work I would never have started the teams, or would have disbanded them, as none of us had any intention of taking work from anyone who might have a need to get paid for it.


 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 03/10/2016.



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