Spain post Brexit for British residents.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out mucker. The political situation may be difficult in the UK at the moment, but people that slag off thir country of origin, sorry, no time for them. 

Russians and Chinese people don't have equal EU rights and freedoms as a Spanish national inside the Schengen zone. I suspect you know that. British people will be in the same situation very shortly.

A countries national does not have to justify their existence or financial status. I view Spain as a member of a greater political union. Not solely a seperate state. I move around the Schengen zone and enjoy a previledged life without having to justify my existance to any beauracrat. 

I would have thought Kavanagh you might appreciate those freedoms. 

Just in case you missed it, mucker, Spain also has a Royal Family which costs the taxpayer millions a year and is in greater austerity than UK has ever had. Just something to think about especially as the British lot actually pay far more in taxes than they receive.

Mickyfinn I am disappointed with you. BREXIT has not concluded yet.

Part of that agreement is the transition period. When the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 the plan is that the transition period will apply until the end of December 2020 at least. This could be extended until as late as December 2022, should both sides agree.

Then worst case scenario ETIAS? Britons will have to pay €7 (£6.30) every three years to travel to EU countries, as a consequence no deal Brexit.

Now please answer the question unless you are saying the only benefit is to save £2.10 per year.

 ‘’Can you explain why it is worth all the trouble and the benefits to become a Spanish national as opposed to a British expat with fully legal permanent residence?’’

Mucker

The Bank of Spain said the national debt was now equivalent to 98 per cent of Spain's gross domestic product (GDP). ... Public debt grew by €41.5 billion, or 3.6 per cent, from September 2017 to the same month this year according to the Bank of Spain's data.17 Nov 2018

Whilst uk debt is 78%

ETITAS is a three month tourist visa. It does not confer freedom of movement in the Shengen zone. Nor does it provide rights of residence, employmennt or the right to start a business. I expect such a visa to restrict the holders movement to the one country they intend to apply to visit. Data records will be stored and any over stay or deviation will result in fines. Most other countries outside Europe impose a similar regime.  

Brexit means British people will not have the same rights in Europe as before. There are no scenarios except the cancellation of the entire thing that will give UK citizens any advantage above the rights of EU nationals.

It would seem ETIAS would replace a British Expats right to free movement within the EU who is Spanish resident after BREXIT transition, deal or no deal. Apart from that becoming a Spanish national vs. Resident seems to have no significant benefit unless someone knows different. That is the question I was asking educated mucker.

This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 09/03/2019.

ETIAS requirement currently applies to 'third country citizens' wishing to vist another country. After Brexit or a no deal,Brexit, Britain reverts to that third country status. That means UK nationals living in the UK lose their right of free movement in the EU and will have to apply for ETIAS which is in effect a three-month visa in all but name. It can be refused if you have a criminal record for example. Note it will become an obligatory requirement not an option.

ETIAS does not apply to UK residents registered in Spain. However, if they wish to travel to another EU country it will.

Spain allows dual citizenship under limited conditions. A person with dual citizenship is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Dual citizens receive the benefits and privileges offered by each country. They can vote in both, and access either country’s social services. They can work in either one without a permit or visa, and have a right to free education in both states for themselves and their children. Dual citizens can carry passports from both countries. That eliminates the need for long-stay visas, and you will be asked no questions about your trip when you travel between the two countries. It also allows you to work, set up a business and take a full part in the activities of both nations.

By any standard, compared to simple ' ex-pat residency' citizenship is a superior status for any family and their future dependents who can inherit their nationality privileges for many generations to come.

Mickyfinn I don’t think mucker is interested in dual citizenship; he seems to have made it fairly clear what he wants to do with his British passport.

As far as I am aware a fully legal British expat Spanish resident can vote, and access the country’s social services. They can work without a permit or visa, and have a right to free education for themselves and their children. Residency eliminates the need for long-stay visas, it also allows you to work, set up a business and take a full part in the activities.

However residents when travelling maybe asked if they packed their own suitcase, if they are carrying any illegal drugs or firearms and where they are going. Apparently according to Mickyfinn, Spanish nationals will never be asked these questions.

I only ever wanted to know the benefits of being a national vs. a resident, now we all know.

Kavanagh, British expats with Spanish residents could vote in local elections (but not in national elections) but this right will disappear with Brexit as it is granted only to citizens of another EU member state.  

There is also one other point to consider when comparing nationality advantages against simple residency.

For a UK national post Brexit to be granted a Spanish residency permit it will be necessary to produce evidence of financial support. According to current third country requirements that support must be at least €30k per annum per applicant. They must also provide proof of medical cover.

All these made up and non proven things. Income over 30 grand, no healthcare, no being able to move from one country to another, visas to enter countries, International Driving Permits, no recognition of UK driving licences, not being able to vote in local elections and so on and on. Plus planes being grounded

Pure out and out guesswork and nobody seems to be reading any of the article about legislation being put in place to overcome all these things even in the event of no deal.

I think I'll just wait until the end of the month when we will know instead of relying on guesswork.

(Just like the €30k per annum per applicant. Rot. It's currently €26k for the head of the household and €6k for the spouse but, I suppose, 30k each makes it sound more scary. And nobody bothering to read the Reciprocal Healthcare Bill which has moved to committee stage and will go for Royal Assent fairly soon).

Mickyfinn, so a Brit national can become a Spanish national without ever being a resident now and after BREXIT.

I give in to your superior knowledge and wisdom.

Micky

QUOTE  ................ For a UK national post Brexit to be granted a Spanish residency permit it will be necessary to produce evidence of financial support. According to current third country requirements that support must be at least €30k per annum per applicant. They must also provide proof of medical cover.  ..........

A RESIDENCIA application will apply if UK leaves without any agreement

There may of course be special agreements / concessions made which could change that.

And of course the spouse of an EU citizen (say wife of an Irish, French, etc national) living in Spain,  would join them under the family reunification rules, which are much less demanding.

PS  I believe it is not 30,000€ but around 27,000 and much less for any partner or family member, That is,  a couple will not need 54,000.

PPS To be able to apply for Spanish nationality one must have normally lived for at least ten years in Spain. For some groups, including nationals of former colonies, decendants of Spaniards,  etc.  that period is less.

Kavanagh wrote: Mickyfinn, so a Brit national can become a Spanish national without ever being a resident now and after BREXIT. I give in to your superior knowledge and wisdom.

I didn't write that. Nor do I claim to have any superior wisdom or knowledge. You are being sarcastic.

I am quite happy to admit when I get things wrong I am not infallible. In this case the financial level for third country nations which I now correct. Below is a quote from the current guidelines published for US citizens, a third country under the legal definition.

6. Proof of Permanent Retirement income from an official institution (social security or other private source) to live in Spain without working. The minimum income required is 25,560 Euros annually plus 6,390 Euros per each additional family member. All documentation must be certified translated into Spanish.

The US exchange rate may have changed since these guidelines were published possibly changing the current figure.

Accordingly, a UK married couple post a NO DEAL Brexit on 29 March 2019 wishing to apply for residency in Spain must prove an income of €31,850. Unless of course, the Spanish government make exceptions. The concessions they have announced recently apply to existing UK Spanish residents as I understand it. There are also a number of other requirements such as proof of medical cover/ lack of criminal record etc.

The problem with writing in forums such as this is if you post links to substantiate every opinion the post becomes unreadable. Most don't bother reading them anyway.

Brexit is very confusing it's also pure sabotage. There are guidelines for a no deal, and if there is a deal and then what happens in 2021. I agree with Mariadav. Wait and see but plan for all case scenarios is wise. I do have a great deal of sympathy for Brits who are currently wondering if their imminent retirement dreams in Europe will ever be manifest. Right now it's impossible to know. Perhaps UK parliament will illuminate this coming week but don't hold your breath.

.

Put it this way, if Brits can't retire to the sun and those who have will have to show an income of over 30 grand in my area then the place will quickly become a ghost town. Along with most of the Costas.

Theresa has promised that nothing will change for UK expats resident in Spain.

Well, as Theresa has said that what is there to worry about ?

Ah,  but she is the PM of U.K. not Spain and Spain is dictated to by Brussels, so unless Spain does a ‘brexit’ even they cannot make real promises about U.K. nationals !