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18 Feb 2017 7:48 PM by Fhanrah Star rating. 45 posts Send private message

Hello all,

I made the plunge and put in an offer that has been acceted on a 3 bedroom in Manilva. I have contacted a solicitor to help in the purchase. I was hopeing someone might help me with a check list I should get our lawyer to sign off on, for example, All community fees have been paid?





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18 Feb 2017 8:32 PM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

I would start with ‘’does the property belong to the person selling it’’?

Is the property fully legal?

Can you trust a Spanish Lawyer?

What money have you been asked to pay, and to who?

This is Spain not the UK.



_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.



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18 Feb 2017 9:10 PM by Fhanrah Star rating. 45 posts Send private message

Thanks for the reply,

Can I trust the Lawer, sorry but I wouldn't trust any Lawyer. I had bad dealings in the past on a different issue, but I'm in a different country and I go with my gut when I meet someone new.

As for paying out money, this is why I'm here. What is the norm and what are the pitfalls I need to look out for, for example as you said '' is the property legal, I have no idea what you mean, but it was built in 1980 and there are 80+ apartments there so I would hope so''





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18 Feb 2017 9:34 PM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

The history of property corruption in Spain and all that goes with it (builders, banks, lawyers, estate agents) is beyond belief and comprehension. ‘’go with my gut’’ Good luck just like many before you.

‘’What is the norm’’ The norm no longer exists, it’s a buyer’s market, you dictate the norm not the field of BS you are fed. Got a queue of buyers have they.

Illegal properties Spain, do a google search, better reading than a best seller.

‘’I would hope so’’ So did the thousands of Brits who were scammed and robbed of their life savings.



_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.



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18 Feb 2017 10:04 PM by Fhanrah Star rating. 45 posts Send private message

You make it seem like it's just not worth it and stay away.

How can someone know their lawyer is above board in any dealings. How do you know the property is legal, back to the lawyer, that been their job.

I would say I did ok on the price, it was on the market for 139k and I got it for 116k, there were 2 other properties in the same complex for around the same price and I was the only one looking which they told me and never put me under any pressure what so ever. So I didn't get fed a lot of BS but I'm sure there was a little mixed in.

This is my 4th buy, but my first in a different country. Hence looking for advise from people who have bought in Spain as to what I need the lawyer to have checked and what they need to provide to me to ensure I'm not on ITV Hoilday Homes from Hell Spain.

 





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18 Feb 2017 11:03 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1822 posts Send private message

Don't be put off buying just make sure your so called Lawyer does the job right for you .....make sure everything is in place from this list.you will need a  Escutura/Habitation Cert /E.P.C and all the outstanding bills paid for gas/water/electric/ibi/community charge's make sure the water /gas/and electric meters are in place and all the  utilty services are working good luck enjoy Spain. You did not say if you were going to live in the property full time or use it as a holiday home if the property is classed as a (Touristic) you will not be able to live in it full time ,a property that is classed as (Residential) this  classification can be used for holidays or full time living personally if you are looking at full time living I would ask them if you could rent for six month's with a view to buying ,its a lot easier getting out of a rental property as a posed to buying and taking years to sell at great cost if you don't like it.

 

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 18/02/2017.



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18 Feb 2017 11:28 PM by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 377 posts Send private message

DuncanMcG´s avatar

Fhanrah,

You could do worse than to follow this checklist: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-buy-property-in-spain

The first piece of advice is the most important:

Legal advice

It is strongly recommended that you choose an independent lawyer who is specialised in Spanish land law (urbanismo). Independent means that they work on your behalf only and are not also looking after the interests of the agent or developer.

This checklist on the same page is useful:

Purchaser’s checklist

Before you complete your property purchase you should make sure that:

  • you have seen the Land Registry extract (nota simple), available from the Colegio de Registradores (translations into English for an additional fee), and checked the following details
  • the property and land for sale match the details registered and the sellers are the registered owner(s)
  • there are no debts or charges, such as a mortgage, on the property
  • there are no legal proceedings initiated against the property for contravention of land planning law
  • you have checked that planning permissions are in order and the property is a legal build. This is particularly relevant when buying off-plan or direct from a developer. The town hall can inform you whether the building has all licences and permissions and provide details of the type of land. If the property is built on rural land or land that is not classified for construction, additional confirmation should be sought from the regional government as to whether they have authorised the construction
  • if you are buying an off-plan property, confirm that the property has been certified as finished by a registered architect and registered as a new build in the property register. The registration should also provide details of the developer’s insurance against structural and other defects in the construction. In the case of a private build (the previous owner built their own house and decided to sell before ten years had lapsed) you will need to request these details separately
  • you have checked the latest town plan to see whether or not the plot you wish to buy has any building restrictions, is in a green zone or includes a public pathway or similar. This can be viewed at to the town planning (urbanismo) department of the local town hall
  • you have carried out a property survey. Whilst this is not obligatory, it is wise to get a chartered surveyor to check the property
  • You know the cadastral value of the property and how much purchase tax will be due. Be aware that tax is charged on the council’s valuation of the property as opposed to the amount of the sale. You can check this at the regional government’s online tax agency site using the cadastal reference number

Make sure you have seen the following documents:

  • a paid-up receipt for the previous owner’s annual property tax (IBI). It is also wise to get a certificate from the town hall proving that there are no unpaid rates from previous years
  • the Catastral certificate giving the exact boundaries and square metres of your land. The Cadastral record will be linked to the Land Register record by a cadastral reference which will be included in both. You should ensure that the property and land description contained in both records matches
  • the licence of first occupancy or habitation certificate issued by the town hall. You will need this document to connect to electricity and water companies. Developers cannot force you to complete without this licence.
  • receipt to prove all utility bills have been paid by the previous owner
  • if applicable, a certificate signed by the President of the Community of Property Owners stating that there are no outstanding debts. You should be aware that if you later find that there are such debts outstanding, as the new owner, you assume the debts for the current and previous year (two years in total)
  • as from 1st June 2013, all homes for sale or to let in Spain are required by law to have an energy efficiency certificate. If you are considering buying a property, the seller is obliged to show you this certificate

On completion, the public deed should reflect an accurate description of the property. It is advisable that you register the property in your name with the Land Registry as soon as possible to ensure full protection of your rights. The notary can even send advance notification to the Land Registry electronically once the public deed is signed.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 18/02/2017.

_______________________
Never wrestle with a pig. You will both get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



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19 Feb 2017 12:39 AM by Fhanrah Star rating. 45 posts Send private message

Thanks everyone





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19 Feb 2017 8:24 AM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

Thosands of people buy properties in Spain every year with NO PROBLEMS, especially properties on established urbanisations

Even nowadays with new builds laws have changed to make it safer people to buy off plan

People are correct just find a good lawyer and follow the rules



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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28 Feb 2017 9:13 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9354 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

That´s it inspectahomespain!



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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01 Mar 2017 12:21 PM by ads Star rating. 4039 posts Send private message

Important to stress however the changes and vulnerabilities left in the wake of the new law with regard to offplan properties.

The first change concerns a buyer’s right to demand a refund of sums paid in advance (and that are guaranteed by a bank or insurance company), in the event the developer does not deliver the property on time. Until Jan 2016, this right could not be waived. From January 1st 2016 it may be, allowing an unscrupulous developer to slip such a clause into a contract.


Secondly buyers used to be covered for all amounts advanced to a developer, even those paid prior to the granting of a building license which can take months to secure. But from 2016 on, you can only recoup funds paid once a license has been granted.

Bank guarantees will, henceforth, only cover amounts paid on the books, subject to official receipts. Ostensibly a means of combatting money laundering, this potentially lets banks and insurers off the hook for under-the-table payments. It is now recommended that you retain proof of payment for any money that changes hands. Important to note that payments in cash that are not declared are illegal and constitute an offence.

Rather than including all the buyers in a new development under a collective bank guarantee, developers will be required to give each buyer an individual guarantee, specifying the exact property being bought, and the buyer’s full details, when they make the first payment. Don’t let go of your money without getting your certificate in return. And you don’t have to pay for the guarantee; it’s the developer’s responsibility.

While the right to claim back advance payments (for example if delivery is delayed for whatever reason) used to be valid for up to 15 years, the new law reduces the period to a maximum of 24 months.

While this might sound like plenty of time, it’s not unusual for a developer to hand over a property behind schedule, so the sooner you claim, the better.

Meanwhile the executive procedure previously in place which enabled buyers to go to court to get a bank guarantee enforced, usually possible in a question of months, has also been eliminated. It has been replaced by a much more long-winded process, with the possibility of having to wait years for funds to be recouped.

In summary, this new legislation leaves buyers in a significantly more vulnerable position, restricting their rights, curtailing guarantee periods and making the process of putting in a claim much more bureaucratic than before.

The advice: if you’re buying property off-plan in Spain from 2016, get a GOOD INDEPENDENT AND TRUSTED lawyer.

Those who use a non independent lawyer linked to the Bank or developer or agent appear more at risk under this new law do they not Maria?

 


This message was last edited by ads on 01/03/2017.


This message was last edited by ads on 01/03/2017.



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01 Mar 2017 2:39 PM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

Good post ads. Fortunately there is no off plan at the moment. If all the Spanish builders had a whip round they could not buy a bag of cement between themselves.

However off plan will come back one day and I fear greed will take over again, from both developers and buyers.



_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.



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01 Mar 2017 3:02 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

No off plan you are joking

Between La Manga in the Mar Menor and Santa Pola going towards Alicante there are 122 new developments under construction and close to 75% of these are already sold, mostly not to the Britsih

In the Vilamartin area alone there are more than a total of 300 villas under construction with an average price in excess of €250k

TM across 5 locations have more than 1000 properties being built, Euro Marina in Quesada at leat 300 under way, Contrmar in El Raso on phase 1 alone 140 soon to be followed by phases 2 & 3 after they sold the 300 they built in Punta Prima and the list goes on



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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01 Mar 2017 4:01 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1822 posts Send private message

The risk's are far to high in Spain to buy off plan just ask the many thousands that have lost their life savings to unscrupulous Lawyers and so call Builders.... corruption is still rife in Spain with town hall back handers and Mayer's going in and out of jail like it's a normal everyday acceptable occurrence please take my advice if you can't see what you are buying then walk away the majority of Spanish builders are playing the Pyramid game ..the site will get started and the people at the top of the Pyramid will get their property but as soon as the buyer's dry up at the bottom the builder will go into bankruptcy protection and leave the site unfinished this is normal in Spain.if you do buy a property on a unfinished site ask you Lawyer to hold a retention of money until its finished otherwise believe me it will not get finished.the builders are in a win win situation they will buy a field out in the middle of nowhere and use your money to develop the site if they manage to Finnish the site they will make a fortune if the buyers dry up and it does not get finished they have still made a fortune and you will be left with a building site.

 

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/03/2017.



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01 Mar 2017 5:10 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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what a ridiculous statement to make branding all developers, agents and banks with the same general brush based on past history

There are hundreds of completions going through every month and by the way on a typical new build not only do you get a bank guarntee but typically the developers only take 40% - 50% up front, in staged payments, balance on COMPLETION with a completion date in the contract, is 60% enough of a retention

The builder doesnt even get the the money so no Pyramid game, I will say agian under the BG scheme the money is now locked away

Windtalker I would love to take you around this area and show you the hundreds of properties finished in the last year, real properties form builder like TM, Euro Marina and Contramar, the 300 - 400 in Mill Palmerous, the 300 in front of La Zenia Boulivard, which have increased in price by almost 30%

What ads is correct about is licencing, if there is not a building licence then they cannot issue aa BG and the other trend is for builders to try and say that first you buy the land, no BG, I will not promote these properties, don't pay anything in cash

It certainly isn't now normal to read about a developer going bust, when is the last time that this has happened to a current developer, it hasn't, as I said people dwell on the history not the current facts, even old site are being re-developed now

 

 

 

 

 



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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01 Mar 2017 5:10 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

what a ridiculous statement to make branding all developers, agents and banks with the same general brush based on past history

There are hundreds of completions going through every month and by the way on a typical new build not only do you get a bank guarntee but typically the developers only take 40% - 50% up front, in staged payments, balance on COMPLETION with a completion date in the contract, is 60% enough of a retention

The builder doesnt even get the the money so no Pyramid game, I will say agian under the BG scheme the money is now locked away

Windtalker I would love to take you around this area and show you the hundreds of properties finished in the last year, real properties form builder like TM, Euro Marina and Contramar, the 300 - 400 in Mill Palmerous, the 300 in front of La Zenia Boulivard, which have increased in price by almost 30%

What ads is correct about is licencing, if there is not a building licence then they cannot issue aa BG and the other trend is for builders to try and say that first you buy the land, no BG, I will not promote these properties, don't pay anything in cash

It certainly isn't now normal to read about a developer going bust, when is the last time that this has happened to a current developer, it hasn't, as I said people dwell on the history not the current facts, even old site are being re-developed now

 

 

 

 

 



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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01 Mar 2017 6:14 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1822 posts Send private message

Nothing wrong with quoting fact's..... And I just love your statement of pass history like all the rip offs happened 100 years back what I quoted is still happening today EOS has hundreds of threads full of these rip off banks /builders and estate agents  that have run off with peoples life saving and if the BS you are trying to pedal on EOS is true it will not take long for the rogues  to come back if the picking are rich enough and it will happen all over again and again.

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/03/2017.



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01 Mar 2017 6:43 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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It is a shame Windtalker that everything that you quote is tainted by your own personal experiences ,with the loss of money on your own  villa, I seem to remember back in July that it was your last post on this forum and most of your posts are very negative about Spain

My comments and the thread were all about new builds, current new builds and I challenge you to find a single post on this, or any other forum where a buyers has, and I will be generous and say in the last 2 years, had a problem with a bulder on a CURRENT new development, they simply don't exist

Read the posts, I do and advise people on a regular, deal with buyers every day, deal with lawyers every day, have hundreds of satisfied buyers, as I say please show me a CURRENT problem with a CURRENT new development

I get so fed up with people peddling the bad news, if you FOLLOW THE RULES, it is safe to buy in Spain and even Maria agrees with this, hundreds of people buying and completing every month with no problems



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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01 Mar 2017 7:21 PM by ads Star rating. 4039 posts Send private message

How many new purchasers know where to go for trusted independent impartial competent legal advice, or feel they are truly protected via good ethical regulatory bodies in Spain? 

Sadly as many have learned to their cost, in Spain Banks are NOT sufficiently regulated nor lawyers for that matter, so it would be in everyone's interest if this was adequately addressed.

Thankfully there are some good Spanish legal firms with proven track records, but that does not detract from the fact that more needs to be done to ensure that clients can rely upon a trusted fallback mechanism I.e. good regulatory bodies that prioritise ethical compliance with adequate monitoring and enforcement procedures in place to deter ongoing malpractice or conflict of interests.

I still live in hope!





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01 Mar 2017 7:22 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

InspetahomeSpain

Yes a lot of deals and a lot of happy people who follow the rules

Sadly we only hear of the bad stories which are often caused by faults of their own from dreamers to DIY'ers 

Yes spain has problems and even following the rules you can get unlucky same anywhere

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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