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08 Jan 2017 13:16 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Hi everybody. and a Happy New Year to you all.

i have been following the forum for a while and I am hoping for some help.

my wife and I are hoping to retire to Spain within the next couple of years (subject of course to the outcome of leaving the EU)

i am currently 59 and my wife is 51 so we are at least 7 years away from either of us receiving a state pension. We are hoping to sell our house in the U.K. and fund our new purchase with cash using the equity we have gained.

My question is can anyone give me some advice on what the approximate annual running costs would be to live in a two bedroom apartment on La Torre Golf Resort resort please? I don't mean food wise,  just the day to day, rubbish, telephone, internet, communal, and government taxes please.

i need to try to ascertain whether a move is realistic or just a dream. Many thanks in advance.

Rick

 


This message was last edited by rick7591 on 08/01/2017.



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08 Jan 2017 13:47 by Team GB Star rating. 1220 posts Send private message

Team GB´s avatar

Rick, I would urge great caution when it comes to selling the UK family home - many expats I speak to that have sold their homes are regretting it because for whatever reason they have to return to the UK and they have burnt their bridges.

Could you not rent the UK house and use the procceds to rent here, at least until you decide whether the place is right for you



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08 Jan 2017 13:55 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Team GB, thanks I understand your concern and we would certainly be renting before we purchased. I am tied into an interest only mortgage that ends in 6 years so I have no option other than to sell before the end. I am trying to work out if it is affordable to live in Spain based on current conditions.

cheers Rick 

 





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08 Jan 2017 14:22 by newworld Star rating. 863 posts Send private message

Hi Rick I have a had 2 properties on la torre, and I am buying a property on the Mar Menor Golf Resort at th moment,  on la torre community fees for a 2 bed apartment are about 130euro a month this gives you free internet with that, Utilities are much dearer in Spain than the U.K. I could not give you a fee because it all comes down to how much you use. You would need contents insurance, buildings insurance is covered with your monthly community fee, Yearly council tax (IBI) not sure how much that was but let's 500 euro a year, non resident tax, yearly and other bits and bobs, Banking is not free is Spain, Its cheaper to rent with 2 beds apartment on la torre around 350 per month long term, and you pay the utilities bills. and if turns out you don't like la torre you can easily move on, and save 1000s on not having to sell a property, all so save on the cost of buying which on the cheapest 2 bed on la torre at the moment around 75k euro you would probably be looking around 10k euro in fees. Good luck.these are apx cost, just say I got before people come on and tell me I am wrong.





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08 Jan 2017 14:28 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Thanks Neworld, this is exactly the info I was looking for. I understand that there will be differences for the utilities it was just a guide I was looking for to see if it is viable for me that consider the move. You have answered my questions thank you, and good luck in your additional purchase at Mar Menor. 





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08 Jan 2017 14:43 by newworld Star rating. 863 posts Send private message

No problem if you need anything else, just ask.





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08 Jan 2017 16:12 by bobaol Star rating. 2261 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

Sorry newworld but could you explain the utiility bills being higher in Spain?

The cheapest average gas and electricity bill in UK is, according to UKPower, for a 2 bedroom house £89 per month or £1068 per year. Water bills average out at £393 per year unless you live in an area covered by Welsh water. Average council tax for a 2 bed house is £1,468 per year.

Now, we only have electric in our house and run both heating and aircon via that. My 2 monthly bill over the last year has averaged out at €146 or €73 per month. My water bill (no pool) is around €64 per quarter or €256 a year. My council tax (3 bed house) went up to €246 last year.

All in all, the average for a UK property would be £2929 per year or €3456 at today's rubbish rates. By contrast, my annual bills in Spain come to €1378 per year. On top of that, my community fees (one of the highest in this area) are €80 a month so €960 a year. Total of €2338 a year or £1981 year, a saving of a bit less than £1000 a year.

Even ignoring the community fees, which vary greatly place to place, the utility bills alone are definitely not "much dearer" in Spain.

 

 





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08 Jan 2017 16:38 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1709 posts Send private message

Yes community fees vary and some are as low as 200€ per year 

Non urbanisation properties have none

I also agree with bobaol utility bills are a lot less in spain

 



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08 Jan 2017 17:02 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1560 posts Send private message

Crikey, how would a chap with three properties in Spain be so far adrift with the figures???

surely someone is wrong here.   

Rick, can I ask what you think about being able to buy in Spain post Brexit.  What's the biggest concern you have about ownership ?  

 


This message was last edited by briando55 on 08/01/2017.

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08 Jan 2017 17:52 by bobaol Star rating. 2261 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

I'm not saying newworld is way out. I know some community fees are horrendous depending on lifts, pools, gardens and so on. We have extensive gardens, five pools including lifeguards, electronic gates (no lifts) and so on which is why it is quite expensive in this area. Average cost around us is about 350 to 450 euro a year whilst ours is 960 a year. One community up the road, with just one pool and not big enough for a lifeguard, actually only pays €120 a year. 

Same with IBI. I know some areas are expensive but ours, for a 3 bed 105 sqm build and medium sized garden was €212 a year and just gone up to €246 but I know of others in different municipal areas who pay 700 plus for theirs.

Gas and electric will, of course, be used a lot more in UK. Central heating would have been on since October and probably goes off in April (ish). We use our aircon for heating and only have it on perhaps 2 or 3 hours a day from December to March. Lots of days we don't have it on at all. Aircon very rarely used as we sit outside most of the time. Our electricity bills were around 200 every two months but we have been on smart meters for over a year and the bills have come down at least a third. We don't skimp on water (although we don't have a pool) but that is quite reasonable considering it includes rubbish collection.

Our phone bill in UK (line rental, broadband, calls) were averaging out about £55 a month. Yes, I see all these deals for broadband at tuppence a month (or whatever) but line rental has to be added. Our monthly bill for broadband and landline and calls is €24 a month. Of course, we don't pay a telly licence either which is now over £12 a month.

Anyone buying (and, at the moment I really would suggest renting) would be advised to look around the communities and find out how much things like community fees and council tax actually cost.

 





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08 Jan 2017 18:41 by newworld Star rating. 863 posts Send private message

  • Resort: La Torre
  • Phase: 5
  • Property Style : Apartment
  • Floor: First
  • Bedrooms : 2
  • Bathrooms : 1
  • Orientation : South East
  • Build / Living Space : 65m2
  • Terrace : 15m2
  • Community Fees: €135 per
  • I have copied this from one of the main agents selling property on La Torre golf becuse this was the place Rick 7591 asked about running cost, he is not interested in any other parts of Spain where you are telling abouts how low your running cost are. HE WANTS THE FACTS ON LA TORRE GOLF MURCIA NO WHERE ELSE,




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08 Jan 2017 19:16 by bobaol Star rating. 2261 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

Sorry, do they pay more for electricity and water and phones on La Torre Golf? It was the "utilities are much dearer in Spain than in the U.K." that I was asking for clarification for. 





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08 Jan 2017 19:34 by newworld Star rating. 863 posts Send private message

As it was the utillites you want to prove me wrong, my question to you is why have you do feel the need to give us all this

I'm not saying newworld is way out. I know some community fees are horrendous depending on lifts, pools, gardens and so on. We have extensive gardens, five pools including lifeguards, electronic gates (no lifts) and so on which is why it is quite expensive in this area. Average cost around us is about 350 to 450 euro a year whilst ours is 960 a year. One community up the road, with just one pool and not big enough for a lifeguard, actually only pays €120 a year. 

Same with IBI. I know some areas are expensive but ours, for a 3 bed 105 sqm build and medium sized garden was €212 a year and just gone up to €246 but I know of others in different municipal areas who pay 700 plus for theirs.

Gas and electric will, of course, be used a lot more in UK. Central heating would have been on since October and probably goes off in April (ish). We use our aircon for heating and only have it on perhaps 2 or 3 hours a day from December to March. Lots of days we don't have it on at all. Aircon very rarely used as we sit outside most of the time. Our electricity bills were around 200 every two months but we have been on smart meters for over a year and the bills have come down at least a third. We don't skimp on water (although we don't have a pool) but that is quite reasonable considering it includes rubbish collection.

Our phone bill in UK (line rental, broadband, calls) were averaging out about £55 a month. Yes, I see all these deals for broadband at tuppence a month (or whatever) but line rental has to be added. Our monthly bill for broadband and landline and calls is €24 a month. Of course, we don't pay a telly licence either which is now over £12 a month.

Anyone buying (and, at the moment I really would suggest renting) would be advised to look around the communities and find out how much things like community fees and council tax actually cost.

 

God only knows, As its nothing to do La Torre Golf as the OP asked for.

Also you being such a wise person i cant understand why your paying so for  much for your phone and broadband in the UK, ive just done a 12 month deal with BT phone/broadband free calls in the evening and weekends £33 pm,  Q your going to tell me i am wrong again





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08 Jan 2017 19:54 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4043 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Might as well jump in on this topic as well, and get shot down in the process probably!

Rick: whilst living costs are obviously an important factor when considering moving to another country, I do hope you've researched even more fundamental things, such as access to public health care, taxation, and even whether you are eligible for residency. There are a  couple of recent threads on the costs of buying, and of selling, property in Spain. If youare serious about selling up in the UK (and personaly I agree with TeamGB on this - do not sell up!) the you really must learn everything you can about property ownership before you even start thinking about things like utility costs. Just my tuppence.

Bob, interesting figures. You didn't mention though, that many peope will pay far less income tax in the UK than they will in Spain as residents, which could well even out the differences in cost of living for some. Just a thought.



_______________________

 

"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Jan 2017 19:57 by bobaol Star rating. 2261 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

Oh dear, can't query anything without the Spanish Inquisition kicking in. If you'd read it properly I was replying to a post that said you'd got it so wrong and was actually defending you.......however........ 

No more from me on this.

 

 





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08 Jan 2017 20:01 by newworld Star rating. 863 posts Send private message

Right ive just taken this from my UK power compay,can you do me a favour and yourself one and put your Spanish bill on the forum,

Electricity
Tariff Name . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fixed 12 Crystal
Product Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fixed Rate
Payment Method . . . . . Monthly Direct Debit
Unit Rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.4000p/kWh
Standing Charge . 16.22p/day (£59.20/year)
Tariff End Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Aug 2017
Price Guaranteed Until . . . . . . . 10 Aug 2017
Early Exit Fee . . . . . £0.00 per fuel (inc VAT)
Estimated Annual Usage . . . . . . . . 4366kWh
Gas
Tariff Name . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fixed 12 Crystal
Product Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fixed Rate
Payment Method . . . . . Monthly Direct Debit
Unit Rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.6450p/kWh
Standing Charge . . 9.75p/day (£35.59/year)
Tariff End Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Aug 2017
Price Guaranteed Until . . . . . . . 10 Aug 2017
Early Exit Fee . . . . . £0.00 per fuel (inc VAT)
Estimated Annual Usage . . . . . . . . 7641kWhR





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08 Jan 2017 22:01 by Team GB Star rating. 1220 posts Send private message

Team GB´s avatar

Don't want to get into an argument or drill down in to specifics but we find that the costs of running our Spanish home are considerably cheaper than the equivilent UK property. Spain charges full wack VAT (IVA 21% ) on energy costs so even if the property is a holiday home and unlived in for part of the year the monthly electric bill is unlikely to be under 50 euros with the standing charges



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09 Jan 2017 00:44 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Hi Briando55, my biggest concern is whether we would qualify for the healthcare system once we reached retirement age. The fact that we may need a visa or citizenship to retire there is something that can probably be overcome in some way. It's the healthcare that will ultimately decide if we do make the move.





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09 Jan 2017 00:53 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Roberto, many thanks for your comments.

As everyone is aware until article 50 is triggered everything is in limbo, I was just trying to get an idea of what the annual costs might be if that status quo remained. I also believe the correct way in obtaining first hand information is to ask people on forums such as this, who actually own properties in the area I have been looking at.

As previously stated I have to sell in the next 6 years because of the type of mortgage I currently have. 

Thanks again for your input 





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09 Jan 2017 01:08 by rick7591 Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Newworld, many thanks for your comments, your correct it was La Torre I was referring to, I apologise if this has got a little heated it wasn't my intention. Obviously we are at the very early stages of this venture and I am trying to weigh up the pro's and cons up before even considering selling our house, ultimately it may not even be an option if our government can't agree with the Spanish government on a sensible resolve.

i have been told by an English realtor working in Spain that the private healthcare system is considerably cheaper if you purchase in Spain from a Spanish provider as I am aware that this would be a necessity if we were to come before I reached 66. Do you know if this is the case?





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