Latest house price news from Spain

If Georgia is implying that the market is an absolute buy, I have never heard such bollox!  Is he/she saying that only in her area that sales are on the incline,  rather than the decline?  I would suggest  then this has to be the only area in Spain where this is occurring.  Even in BCN where I own properties the market is falling monthly.  Therefore to suggest that anywhere else is on the up is just plain nonsense, especially anywhere inland or the costas.    Vested interests of an estate agent who wants to "big it up".  Time for that philosophy is long over.  Reality is a hard pill to swallow.

 FoxiLady, nail on head. 

Harry I just saw what you meant and replied i think succinctly yes?

"If Georgia is implying that the market is an absolute buy, I have never heard such bollox!  Vested interests of an estate agent who wants to "big it up"

If we are misguided he should provide a well reasoned response to clarify his position - or he may just duck off !

 Why the hell should he?  You're starting to get really annoying now.  Georgia has given you some stats from his own business and you seem to challenge him to "prove" it, talk as if this is indicative of every area in Spain which is, of course, a ridiculous assumption.  Maybe he's just better at it than some others.  harry07 started on this site a short while back asking advice about Spain, what the market is like, what the areas are like and so on.  He now appears to be an expert on the market, an expert on the way prices are going, an expert on fairly unknown areas like Algorfa and other places.  I just tend to wonder whose sock puppet he is this time and certainly have my suspicions on the troll aspect again.  

I'm sure Georgia has far better things to do than rise to your not very subtle bait, despite roping in other members.

Hi bobaol - 

Of course Georgia is not obliged to give any reasons as to why the market is a buy on the Costas - although it would be interesting.

A quick read through the latest FROB release dated 29 Oct 2012 however yielded some interesting facts for those
interested in Spanish real estate.

The new Bad Bank (SAREB) set up to take bad loans from the Spanish banks had haircuts as follows:

Average on foreclosed assets:  63.1%

Made up of New housing at 54.2%
Developments in Progress  63.2%
Land                                 79.5%

Which means that that nobody will buy Spanish land even at a 80% discount from the peak!!!!!

AND the fair value of new housing is well below 50% of book value - does anybody know how much prices have fallen so far?

The funny thing is that private investors will not invest in Spanish real estate even with these huge discounts!!!!!!

 But there are places that are "bucking the trend".  As there are nationalities doing similar.  For example, I am not that far from the now famous Algorfa.  Resale properties are being sold very cheaply, in some cases at half the price of new ones.  However, for some reason, a brand new complex of new apartments was recently built and all were sold at the full price before completion.  So much so that a new complex is now being built and sales are already being made (the dreaded "off-plan" arrangement which I thought was a bit dead and buried).  When the slump started, building on some properties on our community (the final phase) was stopped.  This section of around a dozen properties have now been completed and at least half of them have been sold and at the same price they were originally, quite expensive nowadays.  The builders are offering tiling/brickwork in the gardens and installing aircon to lure the buyers but have not lowered the prices.  Buyers appear to be Russian (or other E European) and French although two of them have gone to Spanish buyers.  Unusual as new 3 bed townhouses are €214,000 yet there are resale properties of exactly the same type being offered at €150,000.  The resales don't appear to be moving at all even though the gardens are done, the aircon fitted and are fully furnished yet the new ones are.  Bit strange considering the new ones are not furnished.  

However, we did not buy our property for an investment, we bought it as a home.  We love it, we have made it our own and the prices going up or down (probably down) will probably only affect the kids when we shed this mortal coil.  We, and everyone I have spoken to on the community, have no intention of leaving.  All the doom and gloom of Spain appears to be passing this area by and life still goes on.  It may be different in larger areas (judging by the protest marches I see on Spanish TV it definitely is) but this particular little area doesn't seem to have been affected.  The restaurants are still busy (we went out on Tuesday night and the restaurant was 3/4 full), the town is packed every day, the shops appear to be having a good turnover.   Even the Brits haven't stopped coming as several who bought for holiday homes some 4 or 5 years ago have now moved over permanently.  

Would I buy now?  Certainly as I could surely pick up a bargain and get a detached villa with pool for what we paid for our town house.  Regrets at not waiting?  Certainly not.  

Strange John - - - (plus all the personal abuse !!)

 It appears so John.

Algorfa is not only bucking the national trend as i have just stated with the write-downs of the Bad Bank's assets but the market is booming!!!

And all this in a predominently cash only market.  I can only wonder why investors are not rushing in to avail of the super deal being offered by investing in SAREB which is >50% discount to Algorfa.

 Bobaol,

Your wasting your time but i do appreciate you posting some sense amongst the madness.

If you disagree with these 3 then as we have seen you will get labelled as either my alter ego or mysteriously in cahoots with my company.

leave them to it.....i have decided that they are only here because they have nothing better to do at 3am and probably all the same person.

i am quite happy in my apparent dillusion,it doesnt keep me awake at night.

One cannot deny the benefits of buying your own home.

But when you can rent a 3 bed villa for 6600 per year - clearly the prices quoted for a villa by Babol at €200K are just absurd... new or not.

Using a generous Rent ratio of 15 times annual rent prices a similar villa at around €100K. which is 50% of the price stated and fits in with the figures provided by FROB that they are offloading their foreclosed properties at and there are NO BIDDERS!

On uncompleted "off plan" the discount should be 63%!!!!!!!

If the bad banks foreclosed assets are not going to drive prices even lower then i can't think how the market is stable or even bullish at the moment.

please do share the name of the complex that was sold at "full price" what ever that is.

I think it would be interesting to speculate on what people's motives are.  A certain number here seem to feel passionately about talking the market down.  What's that about?  If it's coming from someone who has said they would like to buy in Spain, then I can see two motives.  The first is that they want to promote a vision of an eternally falling market in the hope that they can then lurch in and grab something fantastic for next to nothing.  An alternative explanation is that they're too scared to take the plunge and justify their inaction by thinking if they wait they may get another few thousand off the price.  This is treating the potential/imaginary purchase purely as a financial issue and not one that is about their actual lives.  Some of us are doers more than talkers.  For example, we've developed a project in the last year employing Spaniards and using locally-sourced materials as an investment and are quite happy to wait however long it takes until we get a reasonable amount back on our return.  The local people we have employed are happy that some people have the balls and confidence to invest in Spain.  In addition to having our own house in Spain, we've been quite happy to invest more money into the local economy (apart from having to deal with the infuriating Spanish bureaucracy in the process, but that's another story).  And, by the way, we won't be handing over our great house with its own pool on a lovely piece of land with stunning views for a few quid to some bargain-hunter.   

I agree with Bobaol and Georgia and haven't seen any personal abuse from either of them or doubt their integrity. Our urbanization must also be bucking the trend as one house was sold earlier this year at a good price (150,000 less than peak asking price but still 200,000 more than original purchase price) this was sold to a Spanish man who lives and works in Russia as his holiday home. The last six months have seen 3 apartments and at least 2 houses sold to French buyers.

 Ah, the pack instinct comes to the fore.  Herds of rampaging muppets sweeping majestically across the ether to appear as disembodied pixels on a computer screen.  I'm not sure which one is Stadler and which one is Waldorf but I'm pretty sure who Norman is.

The illiterati triumvate strikes and reply without even reading items properly.  The places I am talking about are around 20 to 25 km from Algorfa.  At least it is not being confused with the Costa del Sol as previously and, by my error of actually reading posts, I was pretty sure Georgia was a man as well.

moncapitan is talking about making money out of property whereas I was referring to a home.  I am a bit long in the tooth to start making money this way and have been there, seen that and bought the T shirt, thank you very much.  If you are, however, concerned at property being sold for these prices, and sold they certainly have been, simply Google Euromarina.  A whole complex a about 10 flats have all been sold in Dona Pepa II and a new complex is currently being completed.  

You may also, if you had actually read the post, have noticed that I was talking of new property.  If I were in any way connected with an estate agency (and a little research into past posts will certainly throw up my background unless, of course, you're too busy making money out of bricks and mortar) then I would not have pointed out that the resale properties, although considerably cheaper, are the ones not selling.  As an example, a 2 bed Fortuna house is up for sale on a different complex at €84,000 which is less than half the price of a new one.  Not been sold in the last 6 months but a new one at €186,000 has been.  This is what I found incongruous.  A 3 bed corner Lola next to the pool (new price €324,000) has been put on offer at €260,000.  There are no new ones left on this complex but I will be interested to see what price the resale one actually goes for as I very much doubt it will bring that much.

Anyway, you can go back to cackling round your cauldron now.  If someone does take the trouble of posting you could at least do them the courtesy of actually reading the post before jumping in with your size 9s.

Oh, and Georgia, as we are obviously the same person (I've heard of split personalities but that takes the biscuit) any chance of getting my half of the money you made last year?  It's just that I'm off to Florida and the Caribbean in March so a bit of extra spending money would be very welcome, thank you very much.

 Hi Babaol,  thanks for your post and providing information.

I have just been talking in general terms about the market and current trends etc.

I have no interest to buy or rent in Spain and certainly not make any investments there currently.

I was just providing my thoughts and analysis on the data that is currently available in case it may be interesting to some.

I do hope for a swift recovery in the spanish housing market but lets be realistic that the housing market is not active at all considering the jobless rate and there are no mortgages available.

Unfortunately we do not have a house price sales register to get reliable sales data so we are all speculating, those who are bullish much more so.

My view may be pessimistic (to existing home owners?), but that is because the trends are currently bearish - this is not provided by myself.

Hey, Bobaol, I wasn't talking about you.  Like Poppyseed, I agree with what both you and Georgia said.  I was actually thinking particularly of Harry.  He's the one who is always talking the market down and trying to find out exactly when it will hit the bottom so that he can jump in... if he ever actually does. He also likes to post strange little one-liners full of innuendo attacking people, but in a really obtuse way, so that you've no idea what he's talking about.  I choose not to respond to many of those posts.  I appreciate your posts - I like an intelligent debate and you are one of the people who makes intelligent and informed posts.   You may have suggested yesterday that I am an inverted snob, but I haven't taken offence - as I said, my daughter agrees with you. 

Eggcup - I think that's a bit harsh on Harry - his points regarding Georgia are quite valid.

Also, there is nothing wrong with talking the market up or down and also trying to find value when purchasing a home or an investment.

Cheaper house prices are good for everybody in society. 

I would hope that the market does not return to a stage (normal?) where the Spanish were flipping homes and getting sub-prime mortgages without taking heed of the risks.

This thread centres on an objective/honest discussion of Spanish house prices & trends.

In terms of objectivity/disclosure, its common knowledge that Eggcup has been trying to unload her various Spanish properties as John alluded to below (she even presented these to me in glowing detail).

Harry

PS: hopefully the thread may now be spared any further personal abuse