Should you pay a speeding fine from Spain once you're back in the UK?

 Just a couple of points, eggcup.  It would be very difficult for the company to take the money off anyone else as they only have access to the person who hired the car, not the actual person doing the driving.  If you look at the T&Cs on the hire agreements it says that any traffic fines can be taken from the card and this happens in most of the countries I have hired a car in, including UK and especially in the USA.

However, I do find it strange that the hire company allowed the credit card details from someone who wouldn't be driving.  Each time I hired one in Spain (from various companies) the driving licence had to be the same as the credit card details.  I once had a problem as I'd forgotten my credit card and they accepted my wife's credit card but she was listed as the driver and I had to go down as secondary driver.  

I doubt if the fines line the policeman's pocket as a numbered receipt is given.  Unfortunately it can happen in any country where on-the-spot fines are the norm.  A long time ago in Germany I had a rear light not working and the police actually said give me 10 marks and all is forgotten.  One of the reasons I hope they don't bring it in into UK.  

Regarding the "outrageous" fine, see my post about the speeds so it seems the driver was actually going at quite a lick.  In France, those type of speeds can end in a jail sentence as it can do in Norway and other European countries.

 Hi Eggcupp

I was just editing my post and I've it blown for some reason.Will rewrite it shortly. But on your comment as I haven't read all of the discussion but picked it up on the fly, if you are considering taking legal action against the rental company, be sure that the insurance policy that was taken out did not limit the driver to just the person who signed the contract. If so and the driver wasn't covered by the policy you are admitting to another offense. Be careful. But  if you are considering an appeal against the government, this issue is unlikely to be considered, for this offense. 

Yes there still are a lot of corrupt police, well infact the majority just follow orders. I have a lot of friends in the guardia civil and the police and they do have non official "targets" when it comes to fines, and genuinely innocent "non dangerous" errors as a driver, should for the benefit of trust and belief be left as a warning. But Spain is going through hard times and they need cash. This is not an expat thing it is the same for everyone.Yes I also agree certain fines are exorbitant , particularly parking fines. Admitedly other fines are two soft. You can be driving drunk and wrecklessly, way over the limit, have an accident and pay 1000 euros and just lose your license for a year. But if you don't identify yourself as the driver of your own car for that offense, you will be fined an aditional 300 euros on top of the fine, when by default it has already been sent to you as the owner of the car. Work that one out.

good luck

This message was last edited by mac75 on 07/09/2012.

Dear All,

Police corruption is everywhere - power corrupts always

some seek the job only to be a "jobsworth"

what demon ever dreamed up the idea of giving them "targets".............mind boggling mischief.

50 year old daughter with unblemished record caught recently...............miles deep in hour+ plus Dartford crossing attempt...............pauses whilst in stationary creep to text late warning to family.............."lady" police motorcyclist appears out of blind spot to smirk..............you did not see me did you?..............parks flashing lights.............holds everyone up to direct daughter from fast lane across all lanes to side with much dramatic gesticulating and posing.........real drama..............delivers lecture because stationary is not legally staionary whilst engine still running and footbrake only applied...............large fine and three points on licence................wanders off aimlessly smirking with powerfull engine throbbing between her legs .................if you don't like it see you in court

These people make the saying true "life is a sh*t and then you die".

Human nature everywhere

Regards

Norman

There you go again Norm.spouting off about rubbish.

What the devil you are talking about who knows ?

Really silly man

** EDITED - Offensive and off thread topic **

Hi Babaol

Regarding whether the person was driving at a really excessive speed, I'm not so sure.  Justin said in an earlier post that the police bump up the fine to a higher rate in cases such as these, so the level of fine might not reflect the speed.

And, Columbo, the word is drôle or droll, I think you'll find (not troll).  I also object to being called 'loose.'

 Yes, it may not have been that excessive speed although the 10% variation allowable does show it was quite a bit over the limit.  As said, failure to produce contact details does up the fine a bit though contact details, in this case, would have been provided to the car hire company but for your son only, not the actual driver.  

Veering away from the point a little, which this thread has been doing for some time, if you look at some of the complaints then they have actually broken the rules in some way.  OK, the unlit Stop sign was a little OTT but there was, really, a stop sign there.  There is a ludicrous Stop sign when I joing the main road via a roundabout near me (all other entry roads are marked with a Give Way sign) but it is, after all, a Stop sign.  Some have complained that they have been stopped in the little, well-lit, tunnel between CV and Murcia for not using headlights.  Well, the law is that cars must have headlights in a tunnel and there are plenty of signs just before each entrance warning you to put your headlights on.  Minor, maybe, but still the law.  Texting on a mobile in a stream of traffic?  Well, I thought it had been well publicised that using a mobile without actually stopping and switching the engine off was against the law?  Sorry, correct again.  I have seen many abuses by (not just Brits) foreign drivers, the way they go round roundabouts because that's the way they do it in their country, crossing an unbroken white line to get to a parking space on the other side of the road and so on.  Yes, some of them are petty but they are against the rules (for rules read "law").  I was travelling with one driver who got stopped for doing 60 in a 50 zone and he ranted that he never went above the limit.  Actually he'd been doing 70 just before then but was adamant that he was down to 50 and nothing was going to sway him from that.  (60 euro fine reduced to 30 for paying immediately).  I have not been immune.  50 euro fine for parking in a temporary no-parking slot where the sign had been obscured by a truck.  Again, reduced to 25 for paying on the spot (mind you, the local police were in the process of getting the Gruas to move other cars so it was lucky I came back when I did).  But I was parked in a restricted spot and those of us parked were actually impeding buses turning the corner due to road works.  Honest guv, sorry but it's a fair cop.

 I tend to agree with Bobaol about some of the posts on this thread, the thread is "Should you pay a speeding fine from Spain once you are back in the UK?", not "I want to complain and gripe that i broke Motoring Law, and i claim i am Innocent, honest Guv"

All the remarks people make about their Alleged Offence (note i say "Alleged Offence" as i dont wish to be the judge and jury on anyones gripe), but even the people making the comments admit that the "Alleged Offences" they mention are actually illegal.

Maybe these people should reflect on WHY they have been fined, in whatever country, not just Spain, and maybe come to the conclusion that they maybe need to brush up on their skills and the relevant highway code for the country they are in?

Please note before you protest about my comments i professionally drive articulated trucks, and have over the years driven trucks throughout the EU, and have considerable experience from 20 years of commercial driving, Nationally and Internationally, and even now i can learn new driving practices. 

The trouble with most drivers is they pass a test and think that since they are now qualified they need do nothing else, with the EU these days, commercial drivers have to do on the job learning and certification on a yearly basis as well as holding a licence, as it is now realised that drivers let their standards drop. How long before this sort of certification becomes mandatory for car licence holders too?

Please everyone realise that when you are driving it is a SKILL ,not a right to drive, and to maintain a skill takes continuing vigilance and knowledge, not to just put your head in the sand and claim you are innocent

Just to remind everyone, this is the original post:- 

This was Eggcup's view, ignore the fine.  Now she seems to want to adopt the high moral ground !!!!   A bit late I think

Johnzx, you quote Eggcups original thread then go on to state that  " This was Eggcup's view, ignore the fine.  Now she seems to want to adopt the high moral ground !!!!   A bit late I think"

You are trying to put words into Eggcups mouth, or at the least twist the statements meaning. She actually wrote,

"What would you all advise?  I tend to think they should ignore it, but would like to be able to give my friend some other opinions.  Thanks in advance."

she did NOT say Ignore the fine, and asks, "what would you all advise?" Then goes on to say that personally she would TEND to ignore it, no just ignore it totally, as you imply, and she also started the thread by saying she wanted to give her friend other opinions.

I do not think she is adopting any moral ground, high or otherwise, as if she was she would just be disregarding the fine, and not posting the thread. I do think though that you are trying to create an atmosphere of attack and intimidation, which has nothing to do with her original question, and also is not in the spirit of this forum. So unless you are able to advise her on details relating to the original thread, get off the position of assault, and let the thread and its question take its course without intimidation

Please dont forget the forum is for peoples benefit, a source of information.

Dear All,

good lord, or should that be Lord, someone with a sensible view and wise to "Many Johns" tricks............how refreshing.

Take note Justin and ban him like all the other forums.

However what is his view of the deliberate entrapment practised by the police.....is he immune, do they not do it to artics???????

I am of course the supreme driver and do not require any road signs of any description, well perhaps the minimum.

I drive sensibly on all occasions but routinely break the speed limit..... that is it ....routinely every day.

Regulations or the Law, as Bob calls it, are rarely sensible to cover all circumstances.

but I never drive to inconvenience others and never park without care...even though I now have a "blue badge".

the daughter mentioned is proud of her driving record and would never park as Bob does, apparently routinely.

On the motorway the other day I was advised by a totally stupid, dangerous, distracting sign to be extra careful of my towed trailer.

This flashed at me on high, in deadly seriousness and to all others. I do not have the figures but would guess that there was less than 0.1% drivers towing trailers that day.

Additionally it has become the habit locally for all roundabouts everywhere in the county to be covered in signs seeking advertising and thus sponsorship. Dangerous, distracting and mad, or what???????

Regards

Norman

Thanks Robert for your excellent clarification of my position.  My 14-year old son and I (not to be confused with my friend's son who is in his 20s and NOT my offspring and was not the driver of the speeding car, as I have to continually reiterate for the benefit of some members who can't seem to compute these simple facts) have just been watching 'The Killing Fields', as he is very keen on history and I wanted to show him what life was like under a totalitarian regime (for anyone who hasn't seen this excellent film it is about the regime of Pol Pot in Cambodia in the '70s).  I wonder what it would be like to live in a country where you were afraid of saying the wrong thing, afraid of not toeing the party line, where others twisted your words and tried to turn others against you?  Where people had an inexplicable anger against anyone who liked to think about issues and discuss them in a civilised way?  Where they were suspicious of you if you used the occasional long word?  Mmm.  I think my son could get a similar insight just by reading some of the rancorous posts on this thread. 

 Dear Normansands your contribution made me smile, but at the same time you state,

"However what is his view of the deliberate entrapment practised by the police.....is he immune, do they not do it to artics???????"

I do not consider myself to be immune, and there are bad goods vehicle drivers just as there are good ones, just the same as car drivers. I also with some bemusement note your comment,

"the daughter mentioned is proud of her driving record and would never park as Bob does, apparently routinely."

If you are refering to me i NEVER park routinely, as this usually results in a parking fine, and i am even more cautious how i park in a commercial vehicle as the authorities seem to employ tactics along the lines of your words about entrapment by the police....... but then if i leave an artic parked illegally while i deliver i suppose i should not moan about said entrapment should i?

And as to your rather flippant remark,

"On the motorway the other day I was advised by a totally stupid, dangerous, distracting sign to be extra careful of my towed trailer.

This flashed at me on high, in deadly seriousness and to all others. I do not have the figures but would guess that there was less than 0.1% drivers towing trailers that day."

I find plenty of caravan owners thinking signs like these dont apply to them as they are 0.1% of drivers towing trailers on a particular day, unfortunately trailers, this includes caravans, can be quite unstable in a crosswind, resulting in an accident. this can usually be prevented by slowing down at that point, but if there is no sign for the 0.1% of drivers towing trailers how are you going to know you might get blown over? Councils and transport authorities dont just put up such signs for your entertainment, they are there for YOUR and OTHER road users safety.(and on the motorway local to me there is such a sign, and caravan owners regularly get blown over due to their ignorant treatment of the sign)

I feel the thrust of your contribution only reinforces my earlier point that most drivers(commercial included) feel that once they pass a test can throw the rule book out of the drivers window, as aquiring a licence means that they need never bother observing signs or road safety ever again.

God help all concientious road users, i think i will get a saint Christopher charm tomorrow.................

Dear All,

just to clarify since Eggcup's complaint re people not reading correctly a post..............

my compliment re sensible posting was aimed squarely at Robert.

my comment re. improper parking was to Bobaol as detailed in his silly post about the law and it's rigid application in entrapment cases by the police.

I note that Robert is sensitive to his parking but in my book every consideration should be given to these profesional drivers and their seemingly impossable job of managing their huge vehicles on the roads. I routinely give way to them in salute.

As to the stupid sign referred to it was not advisory as to local circustance regarding cross winds but flashing for attention from everyone, it was merely temporary whilst the operator thought of something else to say.

Unfortunately there are many drivers on the road that have litle understanding of what they are doing.

I often think that our idlle police should be helping with training out the obvious faults seen every journey, perhaps all artics should be fited with cameras and towing large items should require a test certificate.

But please no more distracting unnecessary signs.

If people cannot read posts properly at their computer what chance do you believe they have of reading signs whilst driving along with their brand new caravan

Regards

Norman

 Thanks for clarifying that Norman, but there are still a couple of points worthy of comment for you.

You state,

"As to the stupid sign referred to it was not advisory as to local circustance regarding cross winds but flashing for attention from everyone, it was merely temporary whilst the operator thought of something else to say."

If it was a modern motorway matrix sign, flashing to tell of something, many people towing anything dont assess the weather conditions, or speed while towing, and is a timely piece of advice for anyone towing, as a reminder, with the intention of reducing a potential accident possibility to a minimum. You even yourself state in your next sentence,

"Unfortunately there are many drivers on the road that have litle understanding of what they are doing." 

These are the same drivers signs such as these are aimed at.You also state,

" perhaps all artics should be fited with cameras and towing large items should require a test certificate."

Well a lot of london buses have been fitted with cameras to detect traffic violations, and on large vehicles it will only be a matter of time. As to people towing large items, i think you will find that the DVLA are gradually phasing in EU regulations requiring ANY driver of an articulated vehicle(this means even towing a caravan!) will have to hold some form of authorisation to tow. The towing weights for a car licence are already being brought into line EU wide.

As to signs.... i dont think signs need reducing its drivers awareness that needs improving!

 Having just read Bobaol's post again, i think Norman, he is actually agreeing with you!

 yes you should, If I went to the UK and got clobbered for speeding you would expect me to pay.

 robertt8696 said

Having just read Bobaol's post again, i think Norman, he is actually agreeing with you!

Oh, please robert, never say that.  The day I agree with something Norman the Troll has said is the day I wrap myself in a blanket and sit on the porch all day just watching people go by.  Like the law, the man is a ass, a ass I say!