La Caixa Mortgage Problems

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21 Nov 2008 00:00 by Rage in eden Star rating. 1 posts Send private message

Looking for advice please.

I am 7 months in arrears on a La Caixa mortgage. Lots of things happened to bring me to this situation including negligence by the previous branch manager which the bank are quietly admitting to having also removed him and saying they want a solution to the situation without looking back into the past!

However as we know talk is cheap and the legal proceedings keep going.

It took me 4 months to eventallu get a meeting with the area manager who denied ever having received letters from me despite showing him the recorded delivery certificates and hand delivering copies to the new branch manager!

At this meeting i was told they would come up with a solution in 7 days for me.After waiting 2 weeks i spoke to the branch manager who said there suggestion was to find someone English in the town and get them to remortgage their house to give me the money to pay off the arrears. He said they could´nt think of anything else!

I wrote back to the area manager obviously disnissing the banks suggestions and offering reduced payments and review dates as well as 3 suggestions to move forward with the situation pointing out yet again the previous bank managers negligence.

Surprisingly! after 3 weeks i still have no reply even though i know from the recorded delivery receipt that the letter has arrived and been signed for.

So my question is what do ido next? The bank ignore letters,phone calls,don´t turn up to arranged meetings etc so i don´t know what to do next.

The manager and area manager refuse to give me a senior persons contact details at the head office and did´nt know who the director general of the bank was! Until i showed them his name and picture at which point they said he was to busy to deal with people like me!

Is there anyway i can show i have been trying in vain to get the situation resolved as i´m waiting for a dreaded knock on the door sayingheres a court date.Is there any legal act i can quote saying the bank have to talk to me and respond?

I have written to the director general of the bank copying all my previous letters and notes etc but guess what no reply after two weeks.

Thanks for reading hope someone can offer advice

 





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21 Nov 2008 18:11 by headless Star rating in Gandia. 40 posts Send private message

headless´s avatar

Sorry to hear of your problems.

I'm afraid that both the Spanish and their bank managers have a rather different view of mortgage arrears than their Anglo Saxon breathren. It is often said that they would live on bread and water rather than miss a payment...though it'll be interesting to see if the downturn softens this attitude.

I suggest that you have another account open, into which you continue to make the maximum possible monthly payments, as it appears that money is the only thing they will listen to.





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21 Nov 2008 23:39 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Sorry to hear your situation.

Talk to your Spanish lawyer or send a PM to Maria de Castro on this site - there is certainly a formal complaints procedure you can follow for the lack of attention you have received - la Caixa arent obliged to offer a solution although in the current climate all banks are being guided to try to find a "best solution" for all. The courts are very backed up (subject to area of course) and the "system" does not want more unneccessary blockages preventing the courts going about more urgent business. You will be relying to a large extent on La Caixa lending a sympathetic ear but I suspect it may be a deaf one.

Sounds as if youre doing it anyway but keep all receipts for delivered mail etc and if you have anything in writing acknowledging previous branch managers negligence (apology letter or something) then hang on to it.



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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23 Oct 2017 17:40 by FRANKIE14 Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

La Caixa mortgage arrears.

I bought a flat in Alcudia eleven years ago.Ten years ago i upped sticks and returned to the UK,i have not paid the morgage since and i have heard nothing from the bank..A few months ago i returned to my flat,opened the door and everything was untouched.Even my sons toys were where he left them.there was not even any mail.I am totally puzzled,why the flat has not been repossessed.Could it be that the flat is still mine as i have the deeds..PLEASE HELP





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23 Oct 2017 18:05 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Are the utilities still connected? Certainly an odd situation....I'm actually amazed not only by the circumstances but that you went back to the apartment presumably with the expectation that you would still be able to get in..... but fair play to you. I have no idea where you stand legally but I suspect that if you were to contact the bank you would find that there are huge arrears and penalty interest on the mortgage..... can't believe that they haven't changed the locks and that everything remains undisturbed..... then again nothing should surprise me about how some banks conduct themselves in Spain 



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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23 Oct 2017 18:41 by windtalker Star rating. 1665 posts Send private message

Frankie14 did you give notification to the bank ..that you had abandoned  the flat.if you haven't you have got one massive bill to pay ... you don't have the deeds no bank or lender will release the deeds until the last payment of the mortgage has been paid .keep running.


This message was last edited by windtalker on 23/10/2017.



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23 Oct 2017 19:35 by FRANKIE14 Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

I said nothing to the bank when we left and the only reason i went back to the flat was because a friend spoke to the bar owners below and they told them that the owner of the flat was ill and returned to the uk in 2008.All they were concerned about was the community charge which was owing..the water is still running but fuse taken out on main outside board..

 


This message was last edited by FRANKIE14 on 23/10/2017.



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23 Oct 2017 20:08 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

I guess you could get a copy of the Nota Simple to establish what has been recorded at The Land Registry. Electricity company will have removed the fuse outside for non payment of the bill. Odd that there's no post unless it's a community post box and the admin just bins everything addressed to you 



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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23 Oct 2017 22:13 by DuncanThickett Star rating. 80 posts Send private message

FRANKIE14 why have you come back? Were you hoping for a free holiday in the flat you abandoned 9 years ago. Sounds like an episode from "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet" Marjorie Doesn't Live Here Anymore’’.



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Justice? - You get justice in the next world. In this one you have the law.



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24 Oct 2017 10:43 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9290 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Rage in Eden: A registered letter on this, better if headed by a lawyer needs to be issued for your protection. 

Frankie: There are many repossession procedures stopped in Spain as we wait for the European Court to decide on anticipated maturity clause and preferential buying rights of cheap mortgage contracts by debtors. It is also happening that Registrars are stopping the registration of repossessed ownership if the applicant is not the holder of mortgage rights on their books.

For all these reasons, and more, there is a current exceptional status in regards to repossession in Spain

You can also read more on this thread: https://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-23108.aspx

and this other one: https://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-23150p4onddk-.htm

 


This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 24/10/2017.

_______________________

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El blog de Maria



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22 Jan 2020 21:50 by vatyfa Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

Frankie14 did you give notification to the bank ..that you had abandoned  the flat.if you haven't you have got one massive bill to pay ... you don't have the deeds no bank or lender will release the deeds until the last payment of the mortgage has been paid .keep running.





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23 Jan 2020 13:38 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9290 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Interesting!

I could offer to you some insight but I would need to see your mortgage deeds and any related documents first.

You can contact me privately

Maria



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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25 Jan 2020 18:57 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Usually the bank makes a written mortgage offer with all the terms and conditions. The borrower has the choice to accept it or reject it. If the borrower can’t be bothered to spend an hour reading it, whose fault is it when they want to undo a contract they signed and agreed to.



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27 Jan 2020 01:41 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Kavanagh 

You appear to be overlooking Banking abuses with regards to mortgages, as this is not so simple or black and white as you suggest. Plus mortgage abuse has also highlighted some sensitive issues with regard to the impartiality of the SC....

 

.https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2019/06/21/a-summary-of-spains-new-mortgage-act/

The controversial ruling from Spain’s Supreme Court was clearly biased towards lenders with only one much-lauded dissenting vote from a brave magistrate that spoke up against them. The magistrate that broke rank from his peers was the only one who in fact had NOT worked for lenders in the past nor had any professional ties to them; Mr. Francisco Javier Orduña Moreno. So, kudos to this bold magistrate for his forward-thinking and making a stand.

The ECJs ruling corrects this glaring mistake from Spain’s Supreme Court and sets the record straight for consumers at large.”

Also the following has been expressed which may assist the OP...

On June 17, 2019, Spain introduced long awaited changes to existing Spanish mortgage laws. This was done to bring them in-line with an EU Directive to provide increased consumer protection, post the 2008 financial crisis.".

"Now, consumers have much more protection. New Spanish mortgage laws allow homeowners to be twelve months in arrears before lenders can begin repossession proceedings. Specifically:

In the first half of the mortgage term, lenders cannot repossess a property until the borrower is 12 months late in their mortgage payments, or the total amount of their arrears is more than 3% of the total capital loaned.

In the second half of the mortgage term, lenders cannot repossess a property until the borrower is 15 months late in their mortgage payments, or the total amount of their arrears is more than 7% of the total capital loaned.

Late payment fees can be no more than 3% of the amount in arrears. Before the new mortgage laws, late payments fees were up to 12%."

There are difficult areas to address here in so much as where the balance lies with regard to consumer protection, as similar questions are now being asked with regard to recent unreasonable rulings relating to Bank Guarantee law, which then inevitably begs the wider question are some recent SC rulings now compromising the rule of law which calls for judicial  impartiality, or are they too a symptom of "glaring mistakes"?

In which case pity the poor purchaser who is expected to find the monies yet again to continue the pioneering endeavour to gain justice at even higher levels of litigation (Constitutional and/ or ECJ) having previously won lower court and appeal court hearings, then being subjected to a SC ruling which undermines all previous successes to date ( including previous supportive SC rulings ) in order to finally achieve justice according to a law intended to protect from the outset, and make the Bank fully accountable. 
Once again this scenario requires comprehension and great resolve to ensure the Spanish justice system remains fit for purpose. It goes far wider than just individual cases when trust in the justice system is brought into question in this way.

Not easy when mortgagees or purchasers are caught in the interim crossfire, scapegoated until such time as trusted final rulings at ECJ level are achieved.

If these forms of overturning of supportive doctrine and case law established to date are increasingly required to be reviewed by the ECJ, then has the time come therefore for ALL good legal professionals to recognise the risks to the rule of law here, and use a far more "common approach" and come together to request the SC judiciary to reassess their rulings where necessary, in order to safeguard the reputation and trust of a Spanish Justice system at such odds with itself?
 

This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.



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27 Jan 2020 09:41 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Ads, I accept the banks have abused mortgage clients, but have clients encouraged that abuse by having a ‘’could not care less’’ attitude to the detailed terms and conditions of the mortgage offer. And also what responsibility did lawyers have in advising clients to agree to abusive clauses that were in clear black and white?



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27 Jan 2020 12:34 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Kavanagh
All mortgage abuse that has already been ruled upon at ECJ level has to be recognised.

Could it not equally be argued that the Bank of Spain have responsibility to regulate their members who have been proven  to be accountable in this regard?

As for lawyers responsibility it is not for the innocent mortgagee or purchaser to be made liable for failures in their own regulatory practices.

If the Banks are seeking to share abusive responsibility then it should be for the Banks who have already been proven to be made responsible for mortgage abuse via the ECJ ruling to seek their own methods thereafter for recompense against those conveyancing lawyers that they may consider equally abusive. It should not be for those  "innocents" scapegoated in this scenario to be made responsible given the status quo.

The problem becomes exacerbated however for those now being subjected to unreasonable ruling(s) related to Bank Guarantee law (Ley 57/68), which appears to be yet another scenario requiring Constitutional and/ or ECJ rulings to act as protection.

Perhaps the question then becomes how widespread is this now going to impact those who have already achieved successful first instance and appeal rulings against the Banks who are now denying their surveillance and safeguarding responsibilities from the outset of establishing developer accounts? 

How bad does this have to become before the good and trusted legal professionals recognise the need to come together and seek a strategy ( or even a fighting fund) to protect the rule of law in their own justice system from potential lack of judicial impartiality or from "glaring mistakes" at the SC level? This cannot nor should not continue in a piecemeal fashion where individuals are being made scapegoats in this sorry saga of events.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.



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27 Jan 2020 15:46 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

As usual ads you are spot on. I am not too sure what a property purchaser actually pays a lawyer to do.devil Perhaps it's just all a laugh.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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27 Jan 2020 18:03 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Kavanagh,

Whether intentional or not it’s sad when you continually deflect away from Banks responsibilities by over generalising and pointing fingers at all lawyers without taking account yet again of complexities already discussed at great length with yourself on EOS threads. 

To repeat not all lawyers are complicit in this sorry saga of events and those that are could be taken to task ( as described in my previous posting) in the subsequent sharing of abuse by the Banks if they so chose to do! But they appear to do otherwise for whatever reason and instead try to make innocents pay the price....

The bottom line is that Banks are still contemptuously ignoring rulings and law intended to protect, and in so doing are exacerbating the justice system and creating havoc in their wake, which does great harm to the Spanish real estate industry, not to mention undermines the cohesive nature of society by setting seeds of division and distrust.

Arrogant non compliance by the Banks has become a complete disgrace, and sadly not helped when the SC fails to recognise the need for strict adherence to Banking surveillance and safeguarding mechanisms intended to protect from the outset,  ( which then requires additional litigation to the Contitutional Court and/ or ECJ, further exacerbating Banks  non compliance). Nor is it helped by the Bank of Spain who choose for whatever reason not take any effective timely regulatory action when Banks fail to comply with law and supportive rulings.

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.



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27 Jan 2020 18:24 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Ads, who is actually supposed to be controlling the banks from thieving from their clients to give to their shareholders,?



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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27 Jan 2020 19:30 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Banks became a product of their own abuse. Interesting that you appear to term abusers as providers and imply that shareholders should turn blind eyes to the ongoing abuse and malpractices that were not effectively regulated by the Bank of Spain, with regard to mortgage and bank guarantee abuse that impacted thousands as repossessions proliferated without due regard to Banks legal responsibilities and processes to follow..... and yet more thousands of innocents had their deposited monies compromised ( some would suggest stolen) due to more non compliance with bank guarantee law in place to protect.

 Shareholders should be angry that Banks failed in their legal duties and responsibilities in this regard, not to mention the wider scenario where banks failures within the Banking industry as a whole led to the worldwide  Banking crash that everyone had to pay the price for to bail them out. Highly complex hidden structures that allowed Bankers to bet on the system to fail. Yet more failures of regulatory practices and compliance.....all documented and reviewed and analysed in detail over the years since 2008.

Denials of responsibility and lack of regulation and compliance account for all too many of the subsequent impacts. But I'm sure you are well aware of this by now Kavanagh and maybe you too are keen not to return to the concept that played on the fact that they were all too big to fail. So many lessons to be learned, not least the need to curtail irresponsible ( some would suggest greedy) lending practices without all due checks and controls in place. All of these aspects, and more, have been discussed ad infinitum on EOS.

p.s. shareholders should perhaps start to put pressure on the banks to behave in a far more ethical manner with proper respect of laws and regulations in place to protect. The impacts on the lack of respect for Banking laws and their customer base is nothing short of disgraceful as you continue to read on EOS of banks ignoring their customers when problems of the Bank's own making perpetuate further disillusionment and distrust in a system that begs reform and accountability.

Thank goodness for EOS where problem areas associated with the Banks are exposed such that we can see a definate pattern of abuse occurring.


This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/01/2020.


This message was last edited by ads on 28/01/2020.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 28/01/2020.



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