Off plan purchase -warning

Post reply   Start new thread
:: New - Old :: Old - New

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next |

Forum home :: Latest threads :: Search forums
The Comments
27 Aug 2019 7:27 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Angeleyes

Perhaps best you ask your question to a Spanish legal professional instead of your constant nasty personalising insults which are unnecessary.

You are being purposefully obstructive and bullying with intent to try and close down an educative thread which does a great disservice to EOS and to those who could be or have been affected by these highly compromising issues.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/08/2019.



Like 0      
27 Aug 2019 8:15 PM by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 403 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Extremely rude and unprofessional from an 8 star forum member.



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



Like 1      
27 Aug 2019 8:44 PM by eos_moderators Star rating in España. 173 posts Send private message

eos_moderators´s avatar

If you have nothing constructive to add to this thread or any thread, please refrain from posting as it only antagonises those participating. Please don't post for the sake of it....post if you have a sensible comment or question. Please avoid at all cost inciting other members or we will have to step in, something we would rather avoid given this is a public forum.

Thank you.



_______________________
EOS Moderators
> See our Forum Rules | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use



Like 3      
28 Aug 2019 8:40 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Baz, 

Back on track....

The need for change that you speak of is real, in terms of many innocent purchasers being exposed to failures within the system that lay them vulnerable to losing their monies.

To state that purchasers should not buy off plan is one answer, yes, but unfortunately there are many who do not recognise the problems and place their trust in professionals who have not always acted with all due diligence and significantly compromised them in that process. 

This educative forewarning  relating to  just one of several loopholes that have been discussed on EOS,is intended to try and assist in this regard. The fact that not everyone reads EOS is of course a given, but that does not mean it does not serve a purpose for those that do thankfully use EOS to establish facts on all manner of aspects relating to buying in Spain.

So what do you do in these circumstances? Do you ignore an uncomfortable reality leaving many more innocents exposed to the continuing risk, or do you attempt to keep educating and asking how this can be resolved in such a way that will effect change from within and thereby provide better protection?

But all of this requires support from others who either similarly care for their fellow man, or are equally looking to improve a system that is beset by problems, that sadly not only leads to financial loss for those affected, but also leads to a country wide reputation that Spain is a “ bandit state” ( as was once frustratingly expressed by an MEP!), which in itself limits the economic progress of the country. 

But rather than constantly alienate and divide, there is another way to solve this problem, and that is by engaging with those of like mind ( both nationals and non nationals, residents and non residents) who genuinely strive for workable, solutions and recognise the potential longer term benefits to change.

And one part of that scenario is to educate and rationally and respectfully debate the issues, but in as constructive a fashion as possible. Otherwise all that happens is further alienation and division which serves little purpose.

With all that in mind, I would respectfully ask Maria what she thinks is required to solve the perceived problems associated with lack of controls and sanctions that has been identified. Or does she feel that this is an impossible task or a task that many professionals from within are unwilling to address?

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 28/08/2019.



Like 0      
28 Aug 2019 8:58 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

In my opinion, faster trackings of claims and stronger sanctions are generally needed, a permanent control of quality of lawyers ( through periodic tests) would be benefitial too.



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



Like 1      
28 Aug 2019 9:47 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2328 posts Send private message

Yes, ads the need for change the way Spain is seen to be working does need plenty of change, but while folk continue to buy house's that they cannot see on plots of dubious areas of land then how will it change?

It's worth remembering that you can give advice to anyone, getting someone to take it is a completely different matter.

Many UK buyers honestly believe that when they employ a solicitor to buy a house in Spain everything will be straight forwards from then on because they have had no trouble in England, I have lost track of the times when I had to tell people this is not England, different rules apply here, waste of breath to be honest and so much for caring about your fellow man. You cannot educate those who don't want to be educated.

I have never bought off plan in Spain, and wont either, we did look at a house but were told this is the show house so wont sell it, they were starting another section just around the corner, so we looked, a large bare plot, for the next couple of years we looked and still nothing had been built or even started, yet the sales lady did her best to get us to put a holding deposit down...On a picture.

I personally have never had any problems with my solicitors in Spain, she even said to me once 'I am not working for the seller, I am working for you,'  like I said though no off plan buys.

The media is full to the brim of the pitfalls about buying in Spain yet still buyers do it, one post on here mentioned waiting / trying for 15 years to get any where with deposit refunds, who on earth needs that stress.

I have bought in England and being totally honest I have had more problems with English solicitors then any in Spain, and also one English builder.

 

 





Like 0      
28 Aug 2019 10:16 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Thanks Maria.

In terms of faster claims, do you know if the positive longer term countrywide economic benefits by enhancing greater investor trust is being recognised by the Government? And do legal professionals currently play an active part in striving for greater investment to improve the justice system, or do they feel they are not being listened to? 

In terms of improving sanctions and quality control, are there mechanisms in place to assist? In other words does this depend upon evidence feedback from lawyers? Or is the evidence being presented but not being acted upon?

 





Like 0      
28 Aug 2019 10:27 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Baz

I understand your own observations and frustrations with those who aren’t prepared to listen. But equally there are many who would be grateful for forewarnings so there’s still a valid reason to continue trying to educate, if only to try and minimise those instances of financial suffering!

But the irony is that there are mutual benefits to solving these problems both for the people of Spain through better economic growth, through an enhanced justice system, etc and for the existing expats, let alone the potential for achieving greater harmony. :)

P.s. There are still all too many who require support who are stuck in the justice system trying to gain justice, so support for improvements for them would be much appreciated. As for offplan purchase... yes, .buyer beware!!!!


This message was last edited by ads on 28/08/2019.



Like 0      
28 Aug 2019 10:56 AM by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 403 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Hello Maria

‘’In my opinion, faster trackings of claims and stronger sanctions are generally needed, a permanent control of quality of lawyers ( through periodic tests) would be benefitial too.’’

I am sure most expats would agree with you but I am not sure if Spanish nationals see things the same. Are Spanish nationals content with the way things are or would they also favour change?

Also does the Spanish Bar Association as regulators believe they are doing a good job and change is not needed?



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



Like 0      
29 Aug 2019 12:18 AM by sandra Star rating in . 812 posts Send private message

sandra´s avatar

Ads

Why aren’t good lawyers, who now represent those clients previously compromised,  reporting these details back to the Bar Associations?

I imagine for the same reasons that one lawyer is reluctant to sue another on behalf of their client. Otherwise, after the many purchasers  changed lawyers when things went 'pear shaped'' there would have been a glut of law suits being filed against those lawyers . Especially against those   lawyers who were were recommended by the developer or selling agent and found to have not secured the legal Bank Guarantee.



_______________________

  

 

 

 

 




Like 0      
29 Aug 2019 10:41 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Very interesting inputs all below.

Incentives to international  residential property investmnent: I cannot see a remarkable emphasis on protecting and enhancing international residential property investment  in the way I see as necessary (i.e.- residency permits) by the government. I think much more is necessary and possible for the benefit of Spain.

Law 57/68 and its Case Law interpretation and new Law 20/2015 protect investment very well. Legal professionals following them are crucial, of course.

Lawyers and Bar Associations: I think that stronger sanctions and continued tests for professional quality are necessary and would contribute to the better off the profession and trust of clients.

Lawyers reporting: I am not too sure about how ready lawyers in general are for reporting malpratices to Regulatory Bodies. We do every time we see it as necessary.



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



Like 1      
26 Sep 2019 10:06 PM by fazarelli Star rating. 282 posts Send private message

Windtalker:-

"Off plan property purchase in the UK is is a cast iron investment...I bought off plan in the UK 2 year's back ..all the builder asked for up front was a £500 returnable deposit if you change your mind ..I waited 8 months for my 4 bed detached and before I picked the keys up it had gone up in price by £23,000 every house on this estate is sold off plan ...if you don't put you holding deposit down you simply won't get one all new builds in my area of the UK are sold this way."

Do you consider investing in these property bond things that are being offered at the moment, a good thing? I've been offered 10-12% returns on off plan developments - not to buy, but to finance them. Very tempting but i've just come out of a 16 year off plan nightmare, and i'd rather not lose it all again!

 





Like 0      
26 Sep 2019 10:11 PM by fazarelli Star rating. 282 posts Send private message

Baz1946:-

"Weird that they wont do it in their own country..... Yet will in someone else's country that they know next to anything about."

 

About a 3rd of the prices aint they Baz. That's why.





Like 0      
27 Sep 2019 12:48 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Be it cheap off plan property or property bonds with high return promises, the motivation is usually greed.

Wherever there is no government compensation scheme it is wise to class any investment or upfront payment a gamble.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



Like 0      
27 Sep 2019 5:22 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Such a generalised reference to “greed” and “ gamble” is emotive and inciteful Kavanagh for those offplan purchasers who subsequently fought for their inalienable rights over many years and achieved supportive Supreme Court rulings no less against Banks who failed in their legal obligations according to clarified law. Note a government approved law intended to protect.

With respect, your observation sadly demonstrates misunderstanding of detailed circumstances that led to offplan purchase, where marketing literature making reference to Bank Guarantees that was subsequently found to be of sufficiently supportive evidence in judicial rulings demonstrated how developers and Banks had prior joint and several responsibilities to adhere to law intended to protect deposited monies in the event of developer breach ( thus with intention to remove the “gambling element” that you made reference to). 

The greed in these cases sadly appears to have been on the part of Banks who subsequently proliferated unsuccessful appeals (and continue in that vein) in their attempts to deny their legal obligations to protect and return offplan  depositors monies according to original law Ley 57/68.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 27/09/2019.



Like 0      
27 Sep 2019 6:01 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Good afternoon my right honourable and learned friend.

I agree with most of what you say but object and disagree with your personal criticism of ‘’emotive and inciteful’’ .

Any foreigner coming to Spain who hands over upfront money on the strength of a glossy brochure and promises is taking a GAMBLE. Most foreigners don’t even know the law in the UK let alone Spain. In Spain the banks cannot be trusted, lawyers are at best hap hazard, and the judicial system is little more than a joke. Builders and developers have no funds of their own to build anything, they are gambling with foreigner’s money.

Of course if you are saying all the above is incorrect and everyone can be trusted 100% then I admit I am wrong and there is no GAMBLE.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



Like 0      
27 Sep 2019 6:34 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

The inferred greed element on the part of all offplan purchasers is the emotive part Kavanagh, which I trust you have recognised alongside the law intended to protect. Inciteful is in respect of the use of alienating generalised inferences, sadly without due regard for detailed circumstances. I.e. Not all offplan purchasers are greedy gamblers!

As for comparisons between the UK and Spanish conveyancing systems, this is why educative posts are so essential to forewarn of the differences both within forums such as this, and via government websites...

I trust in that we are at least in hopeful agreement?

 





Like 0      
27 Sep 2019 6:58 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

My dear ads, why not cut out all the personal criticism. I am not looking for an argument.

Let’s just cut to the chase, is off plan deposits a gamble or not.

I do appreciate that many foreigners in the past did not realise they were taking a gamble handing over substantial deposits to or through people or institutions that could not lye straight in bed.

GAMBLE OR NO GAMBLE?   



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



Like 1      
27 Sep 2019 7:31 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Yes, it is a gamble, given the change in law as identified at the start of this thread, if conveyancing lawyers are not  consistently ensuring that building licences are in place PRIOR to placing any deposit, as the BG in this circumstance would not apply.

Hence my forewarning with regard to the change in law..... but this does not apply in the case of the original law Ley 57/68.





Like 1      
27 Sep 2019 8:24 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1316 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Thank you ads, much appreciated.

I think much of the problem here is the deposit and stage payments funding the build. A €1,000 holding deposit is quite sufficient. Too many builders and developers are chancers and the lack of regulation and laws encourage them.

In times gone by, if only gullible Billy Brit knew what risks he was taking handing over money to developers and the bank of Fagin. He deserves to now be educated but don’t rely on the British Consulate in Alicante.no



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



Like 1      

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next |

Post reply    Start new thread


Previous Threads

Dilemma - 15 posts
Layz Spa parts - 0 posts
Personal Injury Lawyers - 7 posts
Proxy votes AGM - 4 posts
Transferring pension to spain - 10 posts
Freeware Accounting Progam for a Small Club/Association - 1 posts
need to change uk address - 59 posts
IBI tax on property - 14 posts
Debt status certificate - 68 posts
Pet passports after No Deal Brexit - 25 posts
Motor homes - 3 posts
Mortgage Floor Clause Question - 9 posts
Water - 2 posts
Watching Football Training in Barcelona - 0 posts
Horizontal Property Law and Apartment Block Barbecues - 2 posts
Drones and traffic fines - 17 posts
Spanish Law/HPL - 5 posts
CBD Capsules - 6 posts
Guardamar or torrevieja - 3 posts
Banking - 6 posts
Buying Beef - 5 posts
Patronato De Recaudacion Provincial. - 3 posts
Losing my NIE/TIE - 5 posts
Bringing plants to Spain - 3 posts
inter active cadastral map of spain - 3 posts

Number of posts in this thread: 70

DISCLAIMER:  All opinions posted on these message boards are the opinion solely of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Eye on Spain, its servants or agents.


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
Our Weekly Email Digest
Name:  
Email:
   


This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More information here. x