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21 Aug 2019 18:27 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Having followed advice received earlier, I asked the current Admin to arrange an EGM, with the Agenda Item - The Administrator.

Received an email asking me to be "more explicit". Said I cannot be as to do so will explain the reason for the EGM for which there will then be no need if I spilled everything. Return reply accused me of being confused about EGMs/AGMs stating the following:(errors et al - " Sorry but we think that the proper use of EGMs is being confused, EGM's and AGM's are convened to take agreements from the communtiy so, which agreement do you want to take about the administrator? The discussion or debate should be to can take some agreement, what will that agreement be for the agenda? This item is what we need."

I think this is being disruptive by the Administrator. Am I wrong>? The message in quote is unclear but I deduce they want as much info as possible as being forewarned is forearmed. For years previous Presidents have been disgruntled but no one was prepared to bite the bullet.

Thoughts/advice will be gratefully welcomed and highly appreciated. Have contacted alternative Admin who is surprised I decided to include the current Admin in the EGM. I did not have contact details of owners so I had no option but to ask them to arrange the EGM. 





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21 Aug 2019 22:10 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1557 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

You don’t have any other option calling an EGM other than involving the current Administrator, I’m surprised your preferred alternative havenot been more helpful in advising you of the best approach.

Ideally all AGMs or EGMs should have a clear proposal so those who cannot be present can send a proxy vote on their decision.

Be very careful that the current Administrator does not contact ALL the owners especially the Spanish to suggest you are making a bad decision and telling owners how much they do for the Community.

They will also attempt to get as many of their friends to attend or send in a proxy to an owner who supports them.

Be prepared for dirty tricks and once again look for the replacement to actually advis on the process.

Legally both Administrators should be allowed to present their credentials to owner at an EGM as it’s the majority of owners who make the decision.

Do you have a strong level of support from owners?





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21 Aug 2019 23:41 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Hugh_man, thanks so much for your advice. Most of what you said Ihad already suspected eg drumming up support from their "friends" and dirty tricks. They have been asking me for more details and what am hoping to do at the EGM but I have just said that will be the subject for discussion. The new Admin has not com back with guidance. This person thinks I should not have involved the existing Administrator which I thought was wrong! I am glad  you agreed with me.Since I do not live in Spain and am not a gossip monger and I keep myself to myself when am there, I aam not known to many owners and vice versa. Added to that is the fact that owners rarely visit ....there is only ONE resident there. Very few attend any meetings. And only a handful, at a push, can be bothered to send proxy votes. In Jan 2017 we had an AGM and I was the sole attendee when the admin proceeded with a full 2 hr+ meeting. No Mins, no guidance followed despite several emails from me. 

Today I even went online and paid 5 for advice from a so called "lawyer" in Spain. Nothing has been forthcoming and am wondering if I fell into a scam trap.  Once again, thanks for your reply


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22 Aug 2019 00:06 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1557 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

I can only suggest you trawl through as many threads on here as possible especially Running a Community thread as there has been some ideas put forward by many.

Dont pay for online advice, seek an answer from your proposed Administrator or find one that is helpful.

The problem with not knowing many owners or informing them of what you are proposing leaves you open to not getting enough support as they won’t know what it’s about.

You will need a majority of votes to get this approved, perhaps too early to try and working with a small group of others may be your best way forward.

Most Communities rarely see many attending or voting in AGMs or EGMs and sadly Administrators think they hold all the cards and hate being told to change things by us foreigners.

Good luck though.





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22 Aug 2019 08:21 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Thanks again hugh_man. Once again I thank you and agree with your observation that due to lack of participation at AGMs/EGMs Administrators think and believe they hold all the cards. Ours believe they are untouchable and since my election as Pres just over 7 weeks ago, I have still been struggling to get the Minutes approved let alone action on the "resolutions" decided  following discussion. These Mins have not even been agreed as stipulated in Horizontal Property Law. Anyone will think the community works for the Admon and not vice versa - very frustrating. I read on another thread that besides proxy votes non-attendees at a Mtg or non-votes counts as a positive but unclear for whom, the administrator or their opposition.


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20 Sep 2019 14:13 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

The Minutes mentioned in this thread have now been circulated by the Administrator, without the President's approval/signature. This, I believe, is against Horizontal Property Act. I am told this makes the Minutes illegal and the resolution cannot be executed. This in turn perhaps nullifies the AGM. What do owners do in this case? I also understand the Acting Pres (elected VP) was not in a position to call an AGM, as stated in the unapproved Minutes and that the Administrator should not have allowed this to happen. All a mess really. Any advice on the way forward will be most welcome

 





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20 Sep 2019 17:46 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 355 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Laws and rules in Spain are not worth the paper they are written on. Perhaps it’s time to call it a day.crying



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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20 Sep 2019 19:35 by acer Star rating. 1293 posts Send private message

I think that Angeleyes takes an unduly negative slant on the situation and Spanish ways.  The Spanish are far more pragmatic and won't get too excited, like many Brits, about a technical breach of some rule.  They seem to apply this culture to most things in life.

However where this is significant it terms of being unfair they tend to be quite straightforward, although sometimes slow.

You sound like you're trying to do everything yourself.  If you're to have any chance of winning you need meaningful support from other owners - including a few that are well connected.





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20 Sep 2019 20:45 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 355 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

The empiricism of injustice is upon closer examination almost unorthodox in its animosity.



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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20 Sep 2019 21:06 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Thanks to both Angeleyes and acer for their responses. One says "call it a day" - whatever that means and the other thinks I am trying to do everything myself. When very few, if any, cannot be bothered, who does one approach? Whatever happens in Spain seems to be ligit in acer's eyes. I have no experience so must bow to his superior knowledge and follow Angeleyes' advice and just sell up and get out. Until I achieve this goal, I shall behave like the rest of the owners and simply not care. The President should call an EGM and resign and let some other mug accept the thankless position or have it forced upon him/her.





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21 Sep 2019 11:23 by acer Star rating. 1293 posts Send private message

Cecilia, you have to view the situation dispassionately.  Is it not true you are trying to do everything yourself?  Of course someone has to raise the matter, which you've done, but unless you can get some support you are going nowhere.

Don't assume that others will listen to you and immediately have the same view.  Most of us are like sheep, we need a few people that we know and trust to shout the same message.  So IMHO you do need to sit down and have a few one to one conversations to get a few influential people onside - before you start calling for an EGM. 

You must have a good seconder for your proposal - do you have that currently?  That should be your first objective.





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21 Sep 2019 15:53 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Thank you again acer. I live in the UK. There is only ONE permanent owner/resident in the community and he is not interested in becoming involved this is why a non-resident, was elected. Can anyone tell me why I should plead with others to take an interest in their property? I had intended to sell when the market collapsed. My partner is in no fit state to support me. My health has suddenly taken a turn for the worse so with no support from other owners I see absolutely no reason to risk my health and sanity for others who could not care. I was prepared to put as much right as is possible while I still owned the property but now I have changed my mind. There is indeed a strong "seconder" whose treatment by the Administrator is just as shabby as mine. A few owners have said they will support the Pres in whatever action is decided but will not contact the Admin themselves. This leads me to agree with your comment about u being "sheep" which is quite appropriate but gave me a smile....thank you.

 





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21 Sep 2019 17:40 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 355 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

Absolutely correct Cecilia, don’t be led on by those seeking entertainment.no



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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21 Sep 2019 18:01 by acer Star rating. 1293 posts Send private message

Cecilia, I'm at a loss as to why you made your post in the first place, what you are seeking, or hoping to achieve.

But sorry to hear of your troubles and that my comments are of no value.





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21 Sep 2019 18:15 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Bradford. 355 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

 Acer, I think Cecilia made her post to gain knowledge. That information she has now gained and realises for various good reasons things are not worth pursuing.wink  



_______________________
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.



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21 Sep 2019 18:40 by Cecilia Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

Angeleyes, you are more on the right track. I took the post to gain knowledge about the state of our community and why this is so and to try and improve matters with the support of other owners who complained regularly. None were prepared to take the position as it was too "messy".

For acer's benefit, I mentioned earlier in the thread why I took the position....because no one wanted to take on a role that attracted nothing but negativity. Someone had to do it, why not me? Why should someone else be expected to do the dirty work if I was not prepared to dirty my own hands? I have explained many times what I was hoping to achieve I did not wish to gain anything other that support to improve the way the community was being managed. In my job in Central Govt I had enough name and recognition so I did not hope for any of this in Spain. However, as angeleyes says, I have discovered it is not worth pursuing matters when those who they affect cannot be bothered. I never thought your advice was not good. It was useful and helped me to realise I will get none of the support I had hoped for. So, I decided to walk away and let someone else try their hand at it or have the administrator pick a name out of a hat as that is the procedure outlined in the Horizontal Property Act.

Thank you both for your input and for helping me to realise my hopes were empty ones.





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Number of posts in this thread: 16

DISCLAIMER:  All opinions posted on these message boards are the opinion solely of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Eye on Spain, its servants or agents.


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