Security grills

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06 Sep 2007 12:00 AM by chalky Star rating in here let me out . 12 posts Send private message

due to the input of my last thread i thought id share another with you all for your comments and guidence

earlier in the year when i wasnt president the then president phoned me and asked for my assistance in a matter, it seemed that an owner on the ground floor had took it upon themselves to errect security grills without the consent of the community, the pervious president asked them to take them down which they have done, now im informed they cant wait for the AGM to bring the subject up and i presume to see what others think and hopefully re-errect them.

after 1 year of owning the apartment without any problems they said they were advised by their friends that live in Spain the they are a necessity to keep out burglars, bearing in mind the windows in question are large patio doors, i would much prefer that a good set of patio door locks and an alarm system be put in place rather than attatching unsightly metal bars fixed to the outside of the building.

no one else on the community has expressed any interest in having them ( but the 30% i have spoken to have voiced their objection ) we havent had a break in for over a year ( even then they wasnt break ins the intruders used a key as no damage was presant and it was as we had took occupancy and there was an excess of keys about with tradesman, esate agents etc etc ) and at the time no one lived here full time and now we are 20% occupied all year minimum.

my point of view on this matter is that i dont think we need to have them up, because A) i think they are unsightly B) i think they are a fire hazard ( meaning if there was a fire id want all exits usable) C) as there is plently of people living here now ( 5 directly above the apartment in question, myself being 1 that has the patio door open till 3 or 4am (weather permitting) earning a crust playing poker on the internet) and D) i dont know for certain but if i was a burglar where pation locks and an alarm was installed i wouldnt be making my way in THROUGH the window

But i will go with the majority when it  comes down to a vote at the AGM which i was under the impression it would. i am now informed by the administration that if someone wants to have these up then all the community can do is to choose a design and a colour as it is viewed as a security measure then the community cant refuse them.

Again i am left wondering if this is another senario where an owner can do what he wants and there isnt a damm thing anyone can do about it.

so my question is

would/should this come down to a vote by the owners at the AGM or is it as it seems that this 1 owner can errect them anyway

thanks in advance for responces




This message was last edited by chalky on 9/6/2007.

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07 Sep 2007 2:18 PM by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2626 posts Send private message

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Not sure that it has anything to do with your problem, but we were told by our developer and agent that grilles of some king "had" to be fitted on new builds as an insurance requirement to all ground floor properties. As a result, all ground floor properties on the urbanisation we are going to buy on have them fitted.

Mark





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07 Sep 2007 4:45 PM by chalky Star rating in here let me out . 12 posts Send private message

hello

yes new builds will fall into a differant category,

but i think to have them all fitted will look a lot better then only one

cheers

chalky



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07 Sep 2007 7:13 PM by Karensun Star rating in Orihuela Costa. 1474 posts Send private message

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How long has your apartment been up then chalky? Ours were finished 6 years ago and all the ground floor had security grills.

Some of us have had grills on the doors out to the internal corridor because even tho there is a locked front door to the building some lunatics keep proping it open or busting the lock or simply letting in anyone who happens to be passing!!

Just one person complained about these internal grills and having researched the issue, even tho the corridor is Communal, the actual door grills are fitted on our own property and on our own marble step so do not interfere with communal property.

Obviously all the grills would look better if they were the same, but I think you would be hard pressed to stop people putting them up, far more sensible and less hassle to agree a standardisation.



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07 Sep 2007 7:52 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9413 posts Send private message

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The establishment or suppression of the services of the lift, porter’s lodge porter’s office, security and any other common service of general interest, even when this implies the modification of the constitutive title or the statutes, does not require unanimity, it just requires the favourable vote of three fifths of the total of the owners that, also, represent the three fifths of the shares.            
 
Please see:  http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/community-horizontal-5.aspx

which exposes what the Horizontal Property Act says about that: http://www2.icamalaga.es/funcio/legales/coleg6/lphingles.htm, section 17

HAve a good weekend!

M



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07 Sep 2007 7:57 PM by Rixxy Star rating in San Pedro. 2010 posts Send private message

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Having looked after peoples apartments for many years, I have attended several community meetings (groan) and this crops up all the time. The spanish so like their grills/rejas and i would think the majority of new builds have them anyway for insurance purposes. It is easy to break into a ground floor apartment - one of the main reasons the Europeans in the main (except the English/Irish) prefer to be from teh 1st floor upwards.

I remember one complex built around 6 years ago without them and after a few breakings someone fitted them. At the AGM it was agreed that providing they were in keeping to a particular design and colour, then owners could make their own minds up. The issue was presented and it had to be voted on with a majority decision

At community meetings it is only the issues in the agenda that can be discussed and voted upon - fun if you want to introduce something but sensible as it stops the 7 hour meetings that I have had the misfortune of attending!



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07 Sep 2007 9:35 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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"At community meetings it is only the issues in the agenda that can be discussed and voted upon - fun if you want to introduce something but sensible as it stops the 7 hour meetings that I have had the misfortune of attending!"

Doesn't every agenda end with "ruegas y preguntas" - any other business, as we would say? That's the bit that takes 6 and a half hours!

I'm kinda split on this one. As you all know, the Horizontal Law is my bible (never leave home without it, just in case I bump into a neighbour who needs enlightening), but like all good laws, it's open to ambiguous interpretation. Yes, Maria is right, it tells us about security issues, but you could say it is only referring to communal rather than individual installations. So I think Karen has it right in saying that grills or gates on private property must be allowed, so long as they conform to the general image of the property as a whole - just like toldos (sun shades) can be erected, so long as they all follow the same colour code.

As for the insurance issue, I can vouch that when insuring a ground floor property, one of the first things you will be asked is "does it have rejas", and if not, you will not be looked upon favourably! I for one would never live in a ground floor property unless it was fully battle ready. 



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07 Sep 2007 11:43 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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As a holiday-visitor (hopefully to change to permanent resident shortly) I would feel very insecure without the rejas (grilles) on my property.  I also feel that, if I got broken into and my "committee" had stopped me having these rejas, I would have a good case to sue the people who made this decision.  As I understand it, all new property has to have grilles fitted on the ground floor.  What's good for the newbies must be good for the oldies.  And, anyway, I think the decorative grilles adds a little to the charm of the property (it's Spain, not UK). 

 PS My current place is on the first (not ground) floor and I still have these grilles on every window.  Look at the threads on property crime in Spain and you'll see what I mean. 

PPS Could I have my community fees redueced by the amount of extra insurance I'd have to pay if I didn't have them fitted?





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08 Sep 2007 2:22 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

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Out of interest, my Brother owns a villa in Aspe, near Alicante and the WHOLE of the urbanisation was built with no grilles at any orifice!

Interestingly, the Spanish owners have not added them, but some, and only some of the British/foreign owners have.

So, is it tradition? Or security?

As for a community banning them.....disgraceful, sack the Presidente!



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08 Sep 2007 9:13 PM by Karensun Star rating in Orihuela Costa. 1474 posts Send private message

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YES PLEASE, Fibby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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09 Sep 2007 6:57 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

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Oh no KarenSun, not when he does such a good job!

Hope that front door hasn't been bricked up yet, make sure a sledge hammer is handy for our arrival Thrusday!

You have a nice UK holiday, I will keep the sun warm for you!

Kind regards,



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