Palmera Properties

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28 May 2011 2:58 PM by klowe Star rating. 26 posts Send private message

I couldnt agree more. I put my original thread  in the hope of stopping anyone else taking legal action against Palmera as it will be a complete waste of further money . I am convinced law firms are still taking on these cases knowing full well the clients will never get their money back so in my mind they are just as culpable as the con men developers and agents.

 

 





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28 May 2011 7:37 PM by johnmfranci5 Star rating. 107 posts Send private message

Yes we too have found out that legal action in Spain is completely pointless.

You "win" your case but the Developer simply ignores the judgement.

Thousands of euros of legal fees completely down the toliet to add to the original

theft of your deposit by the Developer.

Why on earth the Uk considers Spain as a friend and an ally I really cannot understand.

With "friends" like these we don't need any enemies.

 

 

 

 


 



This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 28/05/2011.



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30 May 2011 6:38 PM by kumamayo Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

HI.  Klowe  I totally agreed with you.. to spend more money in spanish legal system is a waste of time.. we are all victemed of this scam.. I have bought  an off plan property from palmera properties in 2003 deposit paid £18.000  and than I hired  a lawyer to get my deposit back but failed .. to this lady  who regular posts on this website and adviced. I paid her fees but she never done any work...

I think whoever won their case its all lies because can anyone prove it?

 





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02 Jun 2011 1:29 PM by anniemac:0) Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Ive just found this thread and was under the impression that all communication regarding Palmera Properties was old news - 2009 / 2010 Is there anyone out there who is getting anywhere regarding getting any of there hard earned monies back...............? Anyone..................? Please give us a hint of good news.....................?

Thanks





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02 Jun 2011 2:14 PM by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1648 posts Send private message

Yet another thread with the same theme. Decent people robbed by unregulated crooks in the property industry, then taken for considerable amounts of money by lawyers with promise of justice, when they know in reality there is very little chance, and then cheated by the banks, BG or not?, then to top it all we are cheated by the very justice system that's our last hope, through delays etc.

It all amounts to the same. Spain is not putting it's house in order.  How many more of us will be robbed out of our life's savings by crooks at all levels including those at the (so called) top, in positions of legal trust and justice.   What will it take before someone in power in Spain or the UK, or the EU will have the balls to do the right thing and make sure that those cheated ultimately by the Spanish government are given back what's rightfully their's?

I really despair with those in power who could force moves to take action.  What are they doing to help?.  How much longer will Spain's government get away with  this daylight robbery and abuse of human rights?  





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02 Jun 2011 3:02 PM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

I have to agree here with goodstich.

There are law firms that have signed up many clients for either litigation or monitoring of involvent developers and taken money on very very weak cases but of course only time will tell.

and what I find even more amusing is that some of these lawyersw are the very same lawyers who under a previous name were the recommended lawyer of the agent/developer and now they have re-branded as litigation experts.

It's also easy to produce a win on a good case and there are/were good cases and some people did get back their money but there are far more bad or weak cases than good cases.

I believe many are throwing good money after bad money and are too quick to believe a lawyer telling them they have a good case.





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02 Jun 2011 3:07 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

All the more reason then that EVERYONE should be writing to their MP/local MEP's (via www.writetothem.com) to bring attention to Keith and Ruth's petitions.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-the-spanish-property-roadshow-open-letter-to-davi.html

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

and also bring attention to the following:

The realities of purchasing property in Spain however have sadly proved
exceptionally stark for many UK citizens, innocent purchasers, as they
have been subjected to all manner of abusive activity in Spain, now
deemed illegal:
· Developers significantly breaching contracts and /or building
developments that fell far short of the required standards of
workmanship or failed to meet specification as per the contract.
· Agents in league with developers, providing false promises through
their marketing literature (this literature is deemed part of the
contract).
· Lawyers failure to demonstrate due diligence, providing contracts
with abusive clauses.
· Lawyers developers and banks failure to deliver legal Bank Guarantees
and contract details as per Law 57/68, to provide consumer protection
for offplan purchase. (for further details please see the petition
www.bankguaranteesinspain.com)
· Lack of supervision and control of the Spanish banks to ensure Law
57/68 was adhered to.
· Lawyers in league with developers placing undue stress on clients to
complete without LFO’s in place, under threat of contract cancellation.

As if that wasn’t enough, when purchasers subsequently fought for their
legal rights, many have been further exposed to abusive practice.
· Significant court delays, with no timescale constraints in place to
ensure that successful judgements were implemented in a reasonable
timeframe..
· Developers asset stripping prior to declaring insolvency.
· Justice departments failure to respond adequately to complaints.
· Inconsistent legal judgements.
· Negligent Lawyers obstructing the course of justice by failing to
identify banking information relating to where purchasers deposits were
placed.
· Banks reneging on bank guarantees.
· Major delays to appeal resolutions further compromising the
purchaser.
· Failure to provide timely enforcements or embargoes of developer
assets.

And alongside this scenario, yet more innocent purchasers have been
subjected to abusive practice (those who had completed on their
properties).
· Town halls issuing licences for properties subsequently
(retrospectively) deemed illegal by the Junta
· Purchasers subjected to illegal demolition of properties whilst legal
action remained outstanding, used as pawns in the fight between
regional and local authorities.
· Spanish government’s failure to ensure compensation in place for
those unfairly compromised by these internal political conflicts.

And these are just a few of the scenarios that innocent purchasers have
been subjected to, as many still await recompense after several YEARS
of delays, that continue to compromise the implementation of Spanish
law as per successful legal judgements.

Indeed, if you require further evidence please see MEP Roger Helmer’s
plea to the petitions committee within the EU parliament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrBbZOaqGE

With this in mind, I wondered therefore if you could please stress to
the present Government, the urgent need to ensure that other
prospective purchasers be spared these significant injustices, and do
all that is possible to counter any false claims (see below) by Spanish
officials in our own country during these road shows.

Until such time as the Spanish Government address the major problems
relating to the non implementation of justice, the abuse within the
Banking sector in Spain, and the failure to protect consumer rights ,
then it is essential to relay the message of BUYER BEWARE in Spain





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20 Jun 2011 10:54 PM by kumamayo Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

Dear Maria de Castro,

Re: Palmera Properties and Purchase of property from Proturex Inversiones Y Gestion Inmob S.L. (“Proturex”)

I instructed you to advise me in respect of the above matter. I paid you the sum of 1,500 euros to investigate the matter, seek to recover the deposit I paid and advise me of my options.

I have asked you for an update in respect of my matter and for copies of letters sent to Palmera and Proturex but to date I have not received anything from you.

I would be grateful if you could respond to the points raised below and send me by post the relevant documents:
 

  1. What action have you taken on my behalf against Palmera & Proturex?
  2. Please send me copies of letters sent to either of these companies?
  3. Have you received a response from either of these companies? If so please send this to me.
  4. What action are you taking against these companies? 
  5. What are the prospects of success of recovering my deposit from either of these companies?
  6. What searches did you carry out on my behalf on Palmera & Proturex? Please send me copies of these.

I look forward to hearing from you.



Yours sincerely,




Mr M Hakimdin








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22 Jun 2011 12:45 AM by stokey Star rating. 74 posts Send private message

looking forward to the response on this matter with great interest, is the previous poster or my family wrong in asking to view correspondence  for which we have paid for?, I am sure Maria cannot argue with this even though united golf ( my "developer") who built an apartment which is now due to be demolished, cannot confirm there has been any contact from my solicitors ?, I have seen some other post where a legal matter was solved within a year?, well we paid a deposit three years ago, the BLOCK our apartment is in has big rope around it , to stop families getting hit on the head and killed from falling masonry, obviously even though the block was only completed two years ago, it cannot have an habitation certificate, but even this cannot even be confirmed by our "monthly reports"  ?


 



This message was last edited by stokey on 22/06/2011.



This message was last edited by stokey on 22/06/2011.



This message was last edited by stokey on 22/06/2011.



This message was last edited by stokey on 22/06/2011.



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22 Jun 2011 7:50 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

 In cases where Palmera was involved, we are heading to ask in preliminary stages of the litigation process about the final ending of the money of our clients to lawyers involved and developers. Palmera never attends the Courts calls.

From this, we will be able to see if the action will be against developers alone, developers plus Banks or lawyers involved.

 



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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22 Jun 2011 10:11 AM by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1648 posts Send private message

It seems many people on here are using the services of Maria or Lawbird,  Whilst there's no doubt they are winning cases, how many of wins have meant deposits returned with interest and legal fees paid?.  I would like to see the numbers?.  The reason these lawyers are often used is because they are considered trustworthy, and in Spain it seems a trustworthy lawyer is a rare thing, but are even the best lawyers being honest about the chances of money returned?, and if not can we trust any of them?

There is still not enough transparancy in my opinion.  When a lawyer knows that a judge is rubbish, or a court is rubbish, or delays are going to ruin your chance of real justice, or non implementation of law will mean a court order is ignored (and I believe they do in most cases ) then that knowledge should be passed on to us before litigation is decided on.  In my case I was constantly told by Lawbird that there was nothing they could do about the court delay due to a backlog of cases, and trying to rush a judge could have the opposite effect.  So what happened?, the developer went bust during the nearly two year delay and I ended up with nothing.

I think the truth is that Spains justice system is such a bloody big con and so wrong that lawyers won't admit the truth because it makes their job look very much part of the con?.  They would have to admit that the system they work in is so injust, poor and slow that most of their clients would be wasting their time even taking their cases to court, ........but just how much work would they have if they were that honest?

It's well overdue time that lawyers came clean and admitted that until changes are made to the whole system, then real justice as in money returned with interest and legal fees is probably unlikely for the majority of us cheated.  I feel they could get together if they wished and do much more to make their job worthwhile for their clients, but in line with rest of the Spanish justice system, they wont, because they can get away with it!!





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22 Jun 2011 10:14 AM by johnmfranci5 Star rating. 107 posts Send private message

Well said goodstitch my feelings exactly.

 





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22 Jun 2011 10:30 AM by klowe Star rating. 26 posts Send private message

I agree entirely . Our first delay was because Palmera decided to sack their lawyers just before the first hearing was due to take place no doubt with the intention of causing said delay which resulted in a futher wait of nearly a year before the case was heard. Of course the court order was subsequently totally ignored anyway  so not really any point in any of it.





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22 Jun 2011 10:39 AM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

Cases fall into many categories and some cases are easy wins and these have been highly publicised and on the back of these wins some firms have signed up many clients with what some lawyers would descibe as absolutely hopeless cases and victims are really just throwing good money after bad money.

Of course the problem is some people will simply not accept the truth that they have lost their money and to just walk away. The other alternative is to hand over sizeable sums in legal fees and enter maybe a 10 year battle where everything will be thrown at them and still no money returned!

Palmera were bad news even back 5+ years ago. Bad contracts - no bank quarantees - unclear where money paid to Palmera went etc

On a top 10 list of bad agents/developers Palmera have to be up there with Aifos and Ocean View Properties - that would be an interesting list to complie ..............

 





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22 Jun 2011 11:40 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Trying to stand outside the box and IMHO there is systemic failure by the Spanish Government and Justice system to enforce legislation which places this in the hands of the EU to protect its citizens from member state incompetence, since the European Commission have stated

"In any event, the purchase of a real property in Spain is carried out in accordance with national laws and any alleged transgression of that law has to be resolved before the competent Spanish judicial authorities " "The proper means of seeking redress is through the Spanish courts and, ultimately, once all domestic remedies have been exhausted, the Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg "

 This needs to be challenged in light of the video (2 hours 45 mins  ) that has come from Brussels seminar relating to property rights and chaired by Diana Wallis MEP who is vice president of the European Parliament  (http://www.alde.eu/event-seminar/events-details/article/eu-property-rights-and-wrongs-37447/) , during which the EU commission refers to  "member state competence" and Mr A Walker QC refers to political pressure on enforcement timeframes.

Isn't the truth Faro that these should not be "hopeless cases" with "victims" but protection according to the laws of the land within a member state?

It would appear that the EU can act on citizens behalf when there is proof of systemic failure to enforce legislation (this needs to be queried with Diana Wallis, who has just stated in her email reply "We are keen to maintain political pressure on the Spanish authorities to resolve the wide-spread problems we have encountered over the last few years, and we continue to support the many victims groups in places like Spain and Cyprus "), so for those whose remedies have been exhausted, perhaps this is where endeavours should be focused?

For those wishing to follow up on this point, may I suggest you direct your queries to diana.wallis@europarl.europa.eu

 





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22 Jun 2011 12:04 PM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

Possibly this is where the hopeless cases belong and also the hope of some sort of compensation fund?

My view is that a case is hopeless where some of the following apply  the contract is poorly written, no bank quarantee, insolvent developer, confusion where money went etc etc

and I am still seeing lawyers take on these cases and in my opinion giving false hope and particularly when any positive outcome needs a change in law or some judge to go beyond where any judge has previously gone and enforce the spirit of the law and even if a judge does give a favourable ruling where does the money come from to repay. Most of these development companies are cashless and at best sitting on worthless assets (land or partly completed developments) that are probably already mortgaged in excess of any realistic market value.





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22 Jun 2011 12:49 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Hi Faro,

I take your point re false hope and your concerns relating to new methods of ensuring existing laws are applied and enforced, given the growing economic situation. However it is important to review where consumer protection lies in relation to the legal processes that have been progressed to date and the state's responsibility for property rights.

Suggest you take a look at this seminar video as there are some interesting points that refer to knowledge, security, transparency, unfair commercial practices, information deficit re tax regimes and credit (mortgages), systemic failure to enforce legislation etc etc, all suggesting that there is underlying failure within the existing system to ensure that the consumer is protected by an adequate knowledge base, presumably from those professionals acting on their behalf. (Keith will no doubt give credence to this in relation to the application of law 57/68).

Although there is talk of addressing these issues of some form of harmonsiation within the EU, improved regulation and (as you have suggested in the past) ensuring international professional competence, this is for the medium and longer term.

I would hope however that in the interim petitioners can somehow push the EU for a fair compensation structure for those cases considered to have exhausted all possible remedies. Also of great importance, is to ensure that there is speedy political pressure placed upon the Spanish Government to ensure enforcement timescales are put in place to effect true implementation of law (Keith has suggested a fast track mechanism within his petition) with the bottom line being a fair compensation structure in place where all else fails.

 





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22 Jun 2011 10:48 PM by haydngj Star rating in ALGORFA. 403 posts Send private message

haydngj´s avatar

We have been caught up in this property con.

I do not understand how they can get away with it all.

When you place a deposite on a property the money is paid to a bank to hold untill the property is built.

We went to a lawyer when the developer defaulted told him who we paid the money to and which bank it was paid into. Now the thing we don't understand is ,why do they have to go to court to get it back.All the lawyer should have to do is go to the bank prove that the developer has defaulted and obtain the said deposit.

Strange world we live in, all complecated and everyone trying to make a fortune out of honest people.

We were all told that the Costas  were the crime capitol of Europe so why are we whinging





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22 Jun 2011 11:29 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

This demonstrates the whole purpose of the Bank Guarantee and why law 57/68 was introduced in the first place to act as consumer protection in cases of breach of contract with offplan property purchase. The Banks have no incentive to repay monies, therefore the law was established to ensure that they could not renegue on their responsibilities to repay deposits when breach of contract occurs. The process was intended to be a simple speedy process for return of deposited monies, but as we have all become aware there has been much ignorance in its application and enforcement (including the Spanish legal fraternity and the Banks) . Keith's petition sets out the details in his petition www.bankguaranteesinspain.com and idenitifies the problems and suggests a solution, but again as we have learned to our horror the justice system in Spain has not enforced this law consistently nor in a timely manner, and has in the process compromised all too many innocent purchasers.

FYI, Maria has just identified the following:  

 Very recent Case Law ( dated 3rd of May 2011) by Burgos Appeal Court

1.- Claimer requests both developer and Bank ( issuer of a generic Bank Guarantee) to provide the individual Guarantee and subsidiarily to refund the handed amounts plus legal interests.

2.- On Banks liability Judge interprets that the constitution of the guarantee is so essential that if it is not met, the buyer directly acquires rights for devolution of the handed amounts. Banks are obligued to restitution of handed amounts due to negligency for not constituting the required Guarantees.

 





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22 Jun 2011 11:38 PM by haydngj Star rating in ALGORFA. 403 posts Send private message

haydngj´s avatar

So all the lawyers in Spain eat in the same trough, never mind there are some good ones, they all line there pockets with unearned income





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