25 Brexit need to knows ( Martin Lewis)

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17 Apr 2019 00:47 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

17 Apr 2019 02:12 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4393 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Nothing new at all, but good to know that the UK will continue to be in the Eurovision Song Contest.

Yet more wasted time & space. What a shame the same amount of time, money & effort needlessly spent on this whole Brexit malarky couldn't have been spent instead on something worthwhile.



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"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

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17 Apr 2019 12:44 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Roberto,

The website was meant to assist in providing greater transparency, so it’s sad that this is trivialised by reference to the Eurovision Song Contest, which appears to have been made as a tongue in cheek observation.

When you observe “ wasted time and space” , it’s important to recognise that people’s genuine concerns in any member state are important, and to dismiss them or trivialise them is no solution.

The problem of impact of European decision making on the real lives of people in member states such the UK needs to be taken seriously.

For instance to refuse to reassess realistic timeframes associated with movement of people that widely impacted the UK so hard, and became of serious concern to many across all political persuasions, as occurred under the current EU Commission, did a grave disservice to the European project and cohesion across Europe. To deny the impact that such EU decision making and failure to respond and reassess and recognise uncomfortable realities ( that many refer to as intransigence),  appears irresponsible, as it leads to increased vulnerability, greater division and the rise of extremes that do few countries any favours.

Brexit referendum decision arose as a consequence of failures to reform and listen to citizens growing disillusionment and from decision making being taken out of their immediate democratic control. To face uncomfortable realities of this nature is not a waste of time but of enormous importance.....the future of Europe needs to reflect and respond ....and if the debates from the Brexit referendum decision prove anything it is to emphasise the need for the EU to reform and listen and better respond to the genuine concerns of the people of Europe. 

 





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18 Apr 2019 08:42 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

ads - Brexit referendum decision arose as a consequence of failures to reform and listen to citizens growing disillusionment and from decision making being taken out of their immediate democratic control. 

That perspective is very rose-tinted ads and originates straight from page one of the Brexiteers propaganda handbook. The origins of the referendum are slightly more prosaic and have everything to do with the shoring up of political power rather than laudable attempts to try and satisfy public concerns on the functioning of democracy.  

David Cameron was anxious to gain a majority in the 2015 general election and see off the Lib Dems and UKIP in one reckless act. His hubris after winning the Scottish independence referendum encouraged him to risk the EU referendum. He believed he would win it easily. A sure sign he was out of touch with British public sentiment.

In handing the popularists and nationalists a platform with which to kick the establishment Cameron and his cronies with one act destroyed the Uk's political and economic relationship with the rest of Europe for many generations. The irony is that he may well have sown the seeds for the future break up of the United Kingdom.



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Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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18 Apr 2019 08:57 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 505 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

‘’The irony is that he may well have sown the seeds for the future breakup of the United Kingdom.’’

Would that be a bad thing if it was the people’s democratic choice?



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18 Apr 2019 10:17 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

I think it rather depends if that democratic choice is arrived at by the electorate through a free and fair process. Not one manipulated with lies, false propaganda and outside interference. 



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Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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18 Apr 2019 12:29 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

Generalisations such as populists and nationalists sadly only further alienates and divides.

The important factor to many was that Cameron when asking for a longer more realistic timeframe to implement and adequately prepare for free movement was dismissed out of hand by the EU Commissioners. He was made to look foolish and unsupported by the other member states. They assumed that the concerns raised were unsubstantiated but the British public demonstrated otherwise.





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18 Apr 2019 12:51 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Skegness. 251 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

If the UK breaks up as Mickyfinn predicts would this end free movement of people between former UK members?



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18 Apr 2019 13:04 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

That is unlikely angeleyes since when the Republic of Ireland left the union in 1921 free movement was written into the treaty. I would expect the same if Scotland leaves.

Populist and nationalists are shorthand for a particular brand of politics currently sweeping the world. I don't see these descriptions as devisive more their brand of politics which does that as a matter of course.



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18 Apr 2019 13:20 by angeleyes1 Star rating in Camposol & Skegness. 251 posts Send private message

angeleyes1´s avatar

DELETED


This message was last edited by angeleyes1 on 20/04/2019.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 20/04/2019 11:58:00.

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20 Apr 2019 18:19 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK. 617 posts Send private message

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz





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21 Apr 2019 08:53 by windtalker Star rating. 1532 posts Send private message

Be patient... Breix is coming so if you voted to remain please respect the Democratic outcome.. Stop blaming the majority of the UK population that voted Out ..if any one is to be blamed then that blame should be placed on the political establishment in the UK and the EU they just did not listen to the complaint's from the people that voted them in...the politicians that are holding  seats in parts of the UK that clearly voted to leave ..and don't agreed with the Democratic decision should leave politics ...immediately or be deselected as fakes that do not respect the constituency that voted them in.

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 21/04/2019.



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21 Apr 2019 11:05 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

Remain believers would respect the 'democratic result' much more had the campaign to leave the EU been honest and not built on lies and misleading propaganda. The funding by Arron Banks has proved to have exceeded the legal expenditure rules and he has yet to explain satisfactorily where £8m of the cash he spent came from.

Farage used ant immigration propaganda to stoke the fear factor and Johnson, Gove et al misled the voters with excessive funding promises for the NHS.

The actuality now is because of social media elections cannot be held anymore on the facts without the truth being manipulated by outside forces with their own agenda.



_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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21 Apr 2019 12:22 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 505 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

You can only speak for yourself, and not 16,141,241 million other people you do not know.

Lies and misleading propaganda are the backbone of politics and the public have all had a lifetime education to that fact. Anyone who believes a politician needs to be sectioned.



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ALWAYS BE POLITE & FRIENDLY. PLEASE AVOID ARGUMENTS & CONFRONTATIONS. PLEASE PM ME IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE. Donate to save the children



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21 Apr 2019 12:36 by ads Star rating. 3573 posts Send private message

The truth being manipulated by outside forces? 

Those who voted leave know what they witnessed first hand with their own eyes and first hand experiences Mickeyfinn which for some reason you refuse to believe. Nothing quite like living in the country to know and experience the realities.

Also there were many live debating broadcasts from around the country where MPs were challenged from many political persuasions, each expressing their own perspectives and interpretations together with the public’s perspectives, each discusssing the specific regions and towns that related to them personally. The debates were wide and far reaching, and ironically many of your own interpretations were discussed at length.

BUT at the end of the day people made up their own minds which was their prerogative, so to dismiss such a lengthy and detailed debating process does a disservice to the many who thought long and hard about the issues.





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21 Apr 2019 12:42 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

Kavanagh - Since I have been involved in campaigning and taking part in demonstrations in support of a second referendum, I can testify that most remainers I have met are very reasonable people from all walks in life who believe the referendum result was fraudulently obtained. Admittedly without the pleasure of meeting 17 million of them.

The way to make sure a majority of the British people still believe they should leave the EU is to have a FAIR and accountable second democratic vote.

If parliamentarians can vote more than once on the subject why should the people be denied? If you believe in democracy then how can asking for more of it be ant-democratic? The electorate are now better informed of the issues three years on from the original campaign. Younger people have become eligible to vote for a future which belongs to them.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 21/04/2019.

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Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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21 Apr 2019 13:35 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 505 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Mickyfinn

If the result of the democratic referendum had been to remain, would it have been all honest and not built on lies and misleading propaganda?

Also would you still be campaigning for a second democratic referendum just to make sure the remain vote was correct?



_______________________
ALWAYS BE POLITE & FRIENDLY. PLEASE AVOID ARGUMENTS & CONFRONTATIONS. PLEASE PM ME IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE. Donate to save the children



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21 Apr 2019 15:13 by windtalker Star rating. 1532 posts Send private message

Since when has politics been fair.. just take a look at the Labour party past and present...they promise  the earth to try and get in to number 10 ...and when they get in ( I hope never ) they do nothing other than run the country down.

 





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21 Apr 2019 15:15 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and FRance. 1669 posts Send private message

Had the remain vote won the referendum Britain's government could have moved on to more pressing issues such as climate change and economic inequality. The economy would be stable, investment strong and young people would have a future to work, study and live in Europe. Mrs May would not be PM. Windrush would have forced her to resign as Home Secretary and Farage would have to go back to The City.

Don't you just love the hypothetical. 



_______________________
Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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21 Apr 2019 15:43 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 957 posts Send private message

Why would Farage have to go back to the city?

Are they doing away with the EU parliament?

Might as well for the good it does.





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