25 Brexit need to knows ( Martin Lewis)

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25 Apr 2019 23:33 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 969 posts Send private message

The difficulty is tteedd the public were not asked HOW they wanted to leave.

You think they should have been? That is ridiculous.

Leaving is quite a simple concept. It is the politicians who are making it difficult.

The so called 'hard Brexit' is said by many remoaners to be likely to destroy the economy. But when they are ask to expound on this they cannot or are demonstratably wrong.

The last three years should have been spent investingating and mitigating any problems. Given the ballance of trade between the EU and the UK this should not have proved difficult. A treaty as persued by Mrs May would have benn nice but it is not essential.

 





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26 Apr 2019 00:11 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1094 posts Send private message

You see, tteedd, when you refer to "remoaners" it shows you will never have any consideration for other people's points of view. I will, if you wish, return the compliment and refer to you as a Brecturm, someone who is willing to destroy the UK economy just to make a point. 

Please keep to remainer instead of remoaner and your post ** EDITED - Against forum rules **and we may have a sensible debate.

However, I have found that the Brectums are rather incapable of doing this and revert to name calling and twisting of facts to put over their point. 

Let's keep it nice and reasonable, if possible, and not revert to stupid epithets or be prepared to be ignored.

 

 

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 26/04/2019 09:40:00.



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26 Apr 2019 01:44 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

So what we've established so far is that the price of tomatoes in Lidl will go up - or down, depending on your POV. Either way, I guess we'll somehow manage to live with it. Meanwhile....

What about that Good Friday Agreement? Does anybody actually give a sh1t?



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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2019 08:39 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Actually, Roberto, it is the GFA and its ramifications that lie at the heart of the entire currently impasse. Ireland and the EU requires a backstop to protect their interests in the event of trade talks failing post Brexit. They want to ensure there will be no return to a hard border on the island of Ireland. The backstop provides that treaty legal assurance that the GFA is protected. Anything less threatens the agreement. 

The compromise that would protect the GFA would be for the UK to remain in the customs union, a condition the Labour Party are insisting on to support the exit deal. Remaining in the customs union removes the need for the much troublesome backstop.

One irony of Brexit is as the UK leaves the EU in my view it increases substantially the chances of Ireland finally becoming a united country in the long term. History will show I'm sure the GFA was instrumental in bringing both sides of the divide closer together and Brexit the foundation of a new political focus. The people of NI will see a clear choice now between remaining part of England or a wider community of nations in the EU. Scotland I have no doubt is headed for independence in the next decade. 

Historians I am sure will be writing for decades of the political consequences Brexit brought to a once united nation.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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26 Apr 2019 10:49 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

This sounds like a form of blackmail Mickeyfinn.....stay in the EU or suffer the consequences of Irish unification. It’s exactly this form of non compromise and unwillingness to seek out fair workable solutions to the Irish border issues via  bespoke AND TRUSTED customs arrangements for Ireland given the uniqueness of the GFA, under the umbrella of EU rigid rules with little willingness to remain flexible, that only reinforces the view that the EU appears to have a wider agenda, with little concern for those “ on the ground” so to speak. Just the same as other issues raised with regard to rules governing benefits.... based on two competing concepts – ‘right of residence’ and ‘habitual residence’ –

Total intransigence to consider the effects of the EU rules on a member state being scapegoated in that process.

To many this sadly appears a wakup call to highlight the fact that there are some intent on causing as much division and disruption to the UK as possible, whilst hypocritically in denial of “using” the GFA for their own political ends. 

Let’s hope that a good compromise to the benefit of all can be achieved where good rational solutions devoid of hidden intent prevail...


This message was last edited by ads on 26/04/2019.


 


This message was last edited by ads on 26/04/2019.



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26 Apr 2019 12:53 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Damn the EU, and especially ** EDITED - Against forum rules - offensive- inciting**

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 26/04/2019 13:29:00.

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2019 14:00 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

No ads the EU is simply supporting Ireland its member state. You would expect nothing less. It's the UK who wants to leave the club. It is therefore for the UK to find a compromise solution that protects the GFA and the interests of NI. if the country wants an orderly exit.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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26 Apr 2019 16:31 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

The only solution that protects the GFA is a customs union, which Leavers won't accept because it's not "a proper Brexit". Therefore, it seems to me that there is no solution, and this is the important "fact" that nobody mentioned before the referendum. It hasn't changed - it's just been exposed for all to see.

Sometimes other members use an awful lot of words, but I find I understand absolutely nothing that they say. Maybe I'm just thick, but I can't help it and I'm offended that anyone is offended by my inability to understand them.



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2019 17:04 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 749 posts Send private message

Maybe you are....





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26 Apr 2019 17:07 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 749 posts Send private message

And maybe all those who want to stay in the EU are.....and just maybe those that voted to leave know something "A GERMAN economist has urged the UK to be “far, far away” when the EU’s economic “bomb explodes” as he warned the eurozone is heading for financial catastrophe".





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26 Apr 2019 18:39 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Lucky the UK voted to leave the eurozone then. Oh, wait....it never joined surprise

Wonder if any serious papers will pick up on this story, or if it's just a Daily Express scoop?

Of course, if you get your news from Factbook alone, you'll probably believe that the Lisbon Treaty comes into effect in 2020, and the UK will be forced to adopt the euro if it hasn't left the EU by then.

Sigh.....

 


This message was last edited by Roberto on 26/04/2019.

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2019 18:55 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

It shouldn’t become a competition of who knows the most,  or of belittling people, but sadly all too often the fact that details are hidden in highly complex arrangements intended to confuse or compromise jo public, is a sign of the times we are living in. We are all struggling to understand the hidden detail, and we all deserve far greater transparency.

It shouldn’t have to be this way to be honest, but politicians and legal minds connected with drawing up complex agreements rarely seem to understand how their inflexible uncaring and clinical approach all too often finishes up compromising innocent citizens, who deserve better.

This is why we say the devil is in the detail. We see it so often, especially with those who draw up contracts and treaties and agreements,  and time and time again they are intended to control and rule, with little built-in flexibility to respond to changing circumstances.

This is why people are so wary and distrusting of a system that has become far too large from what was originally intended, where rules that some abide by, and others ignore by complex legally manipulative ploys ( believe me when I say we have only exposed the half of it!), where individual member states’ citizens feel increasingly vulnerable, and unable to action timely change. So is it any wonder they become frustrated and angry, is it any wonder that this is sadly leading to division and unrest?

Mickeyfinn,

BOTH sides were intent on respecting the G/F agreement so it is up to BOTH sides to demonstrate respect and not “ use” this as a political ploy. The fact that UK citizens have democratically chosen to leave in one of the largest voting exercises that we have witnessed for some considerable time, should NEVER be an excuse to undermine a process that took so long to achieve. A bespoke, trusted customs agreement SPECIFIC TO IRELAND given the G/F agreement  ( which is unlike any other border) should surely be possible in this day and age shouldn’t it?

 

 





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26 Apr 2019 18:56 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

The alternative used to be Speakers corner in Hyde Park on a Sunday. I guess they are still predicting the end of the world is neigh. The Telegraph and Ambrose Pritchard et al; predict the collapse of the EZ economy almost once a week. Have done since it's inception.

If it suits your narrative then it works for you. Doesn't mean it's any closer to reality.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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26 Apr 2019 19:00 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 749 posts Send private message

Why are you making it personal Roberto?  The eurozone is an integral part of the EU, if it collapses so does your beloved EU.





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26 Apr 2019 19:09 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

** EDITED - Against forum rules- inciting **

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 26/04/2019 19:32:00.

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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