Constitutional matters in the UK - and their effects on expats.

Brian

You keep mentioning constitution - what constitution is that

It is clear the Scottish parlaiment have approved a referendum - it will happen and IMO sooner better than later

The positive is simple why waste time negotiating on behalf of a member who might not be a member

Another one, if the vote is in favour for scotland to remain in the Uk then it might simply help us all get over the divisions that we have now and guess what the SNP will go quiet

Pulling together the UK is hard enough as it is but when member states are at loggerheads it has no benefit to anyone and divison will simply get bigger

The English vote caused this mess and the current aggressive posturing by many is not helping matters at all

Nothing else to add Tadd.  I said all I want to say on it, we're going round in circles.  

The constitution exists in parliament, matters around devolution and referendum requires parliamentary agreement.   Did the fact the letter was sent in the first place escape your notice maybe?   It's asking for permission.  

I said all I want to say, ask some Scottish people to contribute.  

The SNP manifesto promise was given

The scottish parliament is a regional government. It's powers are limited. It cannot offer constitutional changes or promises outside their remit. Only ask Westminster.

The same goes for their demands over European negociations, it is not in the remit of the Scottish Government. (Except that in this case the SNP members of the UK parliament could speak, but not Sturgeon).

The SNP would be better off dealing with what it is responsible for as a regional governing party. Or does talk of referendums help keep the electorates attention away from the mess they are making?

With £1300 per head more to spend than the rest of the UK they should not be in a greater mess than England and Wales.

Tadd,

You quote "

Pulling together the UK is hard enough as it is but when member states are at loggerheads it has no benefit to anyone and divison will simply get bigger

The English vote caused this mess and the current aggressive posturing by many is not helping matters at all".

This fails to take account of those whose intent is to divide and rule for their own ideological aspirations , those whose rhetoric and compromising practices and intransigent policies have sadly exacerbated division, those who either purposefully misrepresent comment as "aggressive posturing"or fail to see this " mischief making " from both sides of the channel or borders. 

Many citizens appear to now find such rhetoric from both sides as hypocritical and divisive and unproductive when it comes to establishing mutually beneficial outcomes, and self defeating if not careful....

Time to focus on less aggressive posturing from wherever it may eminate and seek out workable and effective solutions to everyone's​ benefit.

This message was last edited by ads on 03/04/2017.

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I agree we are in a right old pickle on this.

Ttteed and Brian

Yes I get but why would any governing body such as Parlaiment deny a devoleved govt the right to a vote? Constitutionally or not.

The represetatievs of the Scottish people have reqesteetd a vote by the correct constitutional means in behalf of the people in Scotland who elected them and the UK govt are denying this request and claiming process (constituionally etc.) and teh worng tiem etc - which is wrong in every sense

Further denials and childish delays will only result in upsetting many people, playing into tehh and of teh extremists, the rift will continue, get worse and the govt have bigger issues to resolve - get it done and sorted one way or another then we all know where we stand and we might just have a chance of unifying as a clear Scottish vote to remain  part of the UK will do wonders for unifying the UK

Seems to me very much like a dictator telling everyone what they can and can't do no wonder thr country is do divided from the top to the bottom - what next?

A vote of no confidence, proetets and marches on Westminster or worse

Tadd you make out as though the division is unsurmountable, whereas there are many who see this in a very different light, and want greater focus on analysis  re delivering positive solutions rather than continuing with doom and gloommongering and further alienating rhetoric.

Tadd. 

Maybe consider it's just the wrong time and way to do it, it might provide some answer for you.  

A vote will happen, no doubt about it.  

At the moment it's the wrong time, for the union and for Scotland in my view.  

If someone can convince me it's the right time, and not just opportunists I would think it through further maybe.  

Brian

Time will tell and we will have to agree to disagree

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You summed it we all have different views and there will be many more spats along the way adding to the divisions  that already exist 

I was invited to a wedding reception by some of my Scottish friends at weekend, and as you can guess the main topic (besides the wedding of course) was the proposed 'devolution'.

One conversation I had threw up the following response:

We are proud to be both Scottish and British, the only people who have an 'axe to grind' at the moment are the SNP and those 'south of the border' who could not win their own referendum and seem hell bent on trying to cause divisions where there are none.

Do those idiots not understand we have had 2 referendums in the past 3 years and each time we voted to keep a union ... not break it... why should anything change now.

The scrapheap is littered with those who instigated the last 2 referendums, (Alex Salmon & David Cameron), it looks like Nicola Sturgeon is in a rush to join them.

There were oher conversations which were enlightening which I will probably share in the coming days / weeks.

If you want the truth go to Scotland and talk to the people, they are not shy at speaking their mind.

Well, this is a lively debate! :)

Given the thread is really meant to be about ex-pat impacts, can I change the subject slightly?  

GIBRALTAR!  Lots of stuff being heavily reported in the UK media about Spain having a veto on Brexit and renewing their claim of Gibraltar sovereignty.  One nutter MP even likening it to The Falklands War and Argentina.  My understanding is that ALL Spain has said is that they should have some say in the settlement as it affects Gibraltar and their common border.  This seems quite reasonable to me and is no different from the situation in Ireland where it is agreed that any settlement has to be in line with the Good Friday agreement, whick means the Irish republic has a say.  The uproar I think shoudl not be about Spain raising the matter but abut Teresa May NOT raising it.

Discuss.... ;)

http://news.sky.com/story/spanish-gunship-in-illegal-incursion-into-british-waters-off-gibraltar-10824884

comments?

Robert will kick off with this one, has some interesting points on it from past posts. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fspanish-gunship-in-illegal-incursion-into-british-waters-off-gibraltar-10824884&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Spanish vessels 'illegally' entering Gibraltar waters has been a regular occurrence for many, probably hundreds, of  years although it is only becomes  newsworthy when Spain has been ‘rattling sabres.’

All unnecessary divisive political rhetoric that does little to benefit citizens in Spain or the UK.

Seeking out mutually beneficial arrangements should be the order of the day where citizens live and work in greater harmony and respect of each others cultures and sovereign systems.

One of the most astute comments ( made by Maria on the Brexit thread) should be repeated here "So sad, politics can create problems that does not exist among ordinary people."

" why would any governing body such as Parliament deny a devoleved govt the right to a vote? "

Because it beleives that regional governments are there to exercise thier devolved powers not become involved in central constitutional matters?

Because it believes that it was elected to govern the UK, not to alter the constitutional settlement?

Because it was elected on a unionist manefesto?

Because it believes in the union and that one separatist vote in 300 years (as has happened so far) is enough?

Because 'now is not the time' ? The nation and government has enough on it's plate with Brexit.?

Because it wants to establish a constitutional committee to establish proceedures in all constitutional matters (including the composition, appointment/election process and powers of the upper house, mandates for separation votes and the rights of the electorate not voting in proposed referenda)?

Theresa May seeks parliaments permission for a general election.

Were fixed term parliaments a good and democratic idea?

Is TM right to decide to chose to have an election when the government wants?

Tedd

In normal circumstances I would say it is not OK for TM to have the election when they want, but in this instance

it will clear up a lot of issues regarding Brexit...

In the 80's when the Conservative government increased the deposit to stop the plethora of fringe loonies from standing I felt that it was wrong and that the electorate should choose if a candidate was serious or not (or even if they wished to cast a protest vote). A better way of doing the 'weeding out' would have been to increase the No of sponsers.

In the coming election (assuming parliament votes for it tomorrow), is it right that a party (UKIP in this instance) that polled large numbers of votes at the last election should be limitied by finances as to the number of constituencies it can support candidates in?

On the  General election trhead there is some whinging that you loose your UK vote after 15 years resident in another country. Cameron, before he abdicated, indicated that he would like to extend that period.

I feel that, whatever that period is, the same period should extend to people gaining residence in the UK before they get to vote.

Fair comment?

You can't vote in a General Election in UK unless you are a citizen. Residency doesn't come into it (unless you're a qualifying Commonwealth or Irish citizen). EU residents can only vote in local elections, just like us Brits can vote in local elections as well. We could vote in the Spanish GE if we took up citizenship.